Forum Academy Marketplace Showcase Pricing Features

Anyone else see this as mubble jumble?

I don’t know if this just on my end or not. If not, I didn’t know where to post it exactly.

I removed link, it was accessible to my account, apologies

Screen shot won’t upload atm, but it’s the community tab/page on the Bubble website.

I’m sorry, but I haven’t got a clue what you are trying to say!

:confused:

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Of course the community page is a bit nonsensical. It’s a fuzzy topic. Hardly anybody talks about it well.

For example, one of the first statements is this, “We’d very much appreciate your help in answering questions from other users on our Forum. This is the best way to share knowledge in a permanent way, as this becomes a resource that every new user will be able to search.” The first part is true, they would very much appreciate users answering other user’s questions. It’s the second part, the rationale, that’s nonsense. The reason they want users to answer user questions is that it costs nothing and comes without any kind of warranty. The actual best way to “share knowledge in a permanent way” is for the Bubble team to keep their documentation up to date…but that costs money and creates obligations. They want a community to do as much of their work for them as possible, but they can’t just come out and say that, so the “community” page is going to be muddled. That’s just how this stuff works.

But the important thing is that it’s just muddled, not nefarious. For example, the next couple statements are links to powerful features that the Bubble team ALSO wants everyone to use, or at least know about. You can make plugins that can be shared between apps (I literally asked if there was a way to do this a week ago and nobody showed me this link) and you can find, or become, a partner to do professional Bubble development. These are arguably much more important features of the Bubble community but they aren’t even listed in the header menu and they’re hardly ever referred to. Again, it’s just muddled communication.

Communication is one of the most difficult tasks for an organization because the author and the audience have different preconceptions. The people who wrote the community page are all Bubble all the time. The people reading the community page are mostly a little Bubble some of the time.

The organization doesn’t necessarily suffer from muddled communication if it provides a big enough value to enough users. If the users are motivated to work through communication issues on their own, then the issues don’t really need to be fixed right away. For example, since I discovered Bubble I’ve found it valuable enough that I’m devoting time to researching it, understanding it, experimenting with it, using it, asking/answering questions, etc. If Bubble didn’t provide much value I would have just used it for the one thing I understood or abandoned it and moved on.

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LOL, I think I figured out why nobody mentions the plugin page.

cuz all it does at the moment is let you change API calls and page headers. Building a plugin out of Bubble elements and actions isn’t possible yet.

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The plugin feature was just recently released (for api calls only),and it’s been mentioned quite a few times on threads here that elements and actions are next up :slight_smile:

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Sounds like a good example of how “documenting” things in the forum is not real documentation. Maybe I’ll think of the right search terms, maybe I won’t. Maybe the right people will see my question, maybe they won’t. Maybe I happened to browse through or stumble across the right conversation, maybe I didn’t.

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On the one hand, a community forum is an established practice at every developer platform’s site. It’s an excellent tool, and it is not a sign of a company shirking its support obligations.

But that doesn’t mean Bubble is handling support obligations. I’ve been hampered and frustrated by the absence of actual documentation about database structure and joins. Various people have answered with a lot of effort and seeming knowledge, but some of those answers have been diametrically opposed to each other. I want to understand how it really works, and which design approaches are best in which circumstances. As far as I can tell, this doesn’t exist.

Bubble is too complex a tool to exist without documentation. What it has is feature-by-feature snippets. This isn’t Google Slides. It’s a development environment, and it desperately needs its developers’ awareness to be captured in documentation for users. The absence of this documentation is going to scare/chase some developers away. It’s going to leave the stalwarts creating sub-prime apps. Eventually, that will hurt the product.

I’m continuing to work with the product for now, but if this continues to be an issue for me, I’ll move on.

Well, actually the original post was in regards to type being layered over each other. It looks like they fixed it, or my computer fixed itself, but it looks fine now.
But thanks for your input gentlemen :sunglasses:

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Well, I agree with you on the fact that the documentation might not be top notch.
Still, as I know bubble is a startup with limited resources, in my opinion I would much rather see them continuing their focus on developing the Bubble platform than prioritizing updating all of their documentation for now.
The forum has many helpful people who spend a lot of their time giving advice, and the tone is generally positive and constructive compared to a lot of other user communities out there.
And the reason for that I believe is that Bubble delivers so much value to people. Speaking for myself I can only say that it has opened up a new world for me.

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I agree with you completely!!

Honestly, the documentation is pretty good. It’s imperfect, true, but not in the way some people believe it to be.

Consider this analogy: Bubble is like the hardware store. It has hammers, nails, wood. When I want to build my house, I go to the hardware store and buy the necessary supplies. What then happens when my front door won’t fit properly?

Sure, if the door’s specification said it was 4x10 but it turned out to be 5x11, I’d hold the hardware store accountable. I’d march right back to that hardware store and demand a door that is properly labeled. On the other hand, if I bought a door that was 4x10, it said it was 4x10, but it was my own fault I couldn’t make it fit, am I going to go back to the store and expect them to teach me how to build a house where I can hang this door?

You see where I’m going with this @blueback09?

Bubble’s documentation is clear. This is what this does. If I don’t understand something, I turn to the community and failing exhaustive searches, ask for clarification. There’s a reason I don’t often post questions on the forum but I always seem to be on it. If someone here takes the time and effort to explain to me a concept in greater detail, I am thankful for their time and effort, regardless of whether or not it solved my problem.

Bubble isn’t a school and the forums aren’t a place to find others to program my app. I don’t pay J&E to hold my hand every step of the way. I assume that if I don’t understand something, it’s because I’m just not experienced or clever enough and I get to work on trying to grok it.

J&E have done a fantastic job of communicating their platform to their users. There’s no nefarious motive and they are certainly not confused when encouraging users to participate here. In fact they are kind, patient, hard working and generous.

Although there is something to be said about reading a message in the statement “turn to the forums”…in a way, it’s similar to “do the tutorials”.

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I agree. I knew nothing when I started and I still face palm a lot. But I have signed up and watched the videos repeatedly over at codefree.co that Brent does, and all the Udemy courses. I can’t tell you guys how much that has helped me understand the concept. But those are made for people like me who are coming off the street and don’t have a DB background, etc…

It took me a while to understand that there are several ways to accomplish what you want to do, depends on who you ask - seems like they are going to answer from their experience and not agenda.

The reason I can’t get things done on my app is my fault and my lack of understanding. These guys have provided a great value (don’t raise my price J&E) for people like me. And the community is great, people are providing their own time to us for free.

And anyone who is new or just wants to learn more, we have great coaches available. You can even sign up and get a FREE newsletter that has tips and tricks. Seems like almost everything is available, I am just short of someone coming to my house and making my app for me.

But we do need to understand other peoples frustration when coming into Bubble. It’s breathes fresh air and new perspective, look what Clayton suggestion just got done on the new tool bar - he’s a newer member. So maybe Blueback might have ruffled feathers but that’s how things get better. And once he masters Bubble I hope he becomes a regular contributor who then only makes Bubble forums better.

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I have often wondered about suggesting a StackOverflow style “upvote” on the Bubble Forum but it does seem to lead down a path of causing arguments and grief. Which might be counter-productive.

Remarkably so :slight_smile:

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I would be interested to see where you would move on to, I have been searching for a product like bubble for a few years and tried many different platforms.

From full development suites like VisualStudio or Eclipse, to code editors like jetbeans or sublime, on platforms such as Meteor, or raw Node, to even systems such as OutSystems, and nothing had allowed me to achieve so much so quickly with minimal learning curve. I have also used web based environments such as Cloud9, CodeAnywhere, Nitrous…

So, if you do move on, or find something that comes close on a price point/functionality, then do let me know…I would be curious to see what it is! there are many products out there that from their promo videos look good on the outside, but once you actually register and scratch under the surface, they are pretty restrictive in functionality.

:slight_smile:

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I agree. Finding Bubble was a dream come true for me. I think we are at the very beginning of something extraordinary and should enjoy the ride, even with a few bumps and wrong turns along the way. We are the early adopters;)

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My team is too proud to discuss (or shy?) at this forum. They want to find themselves all answers.
They come everyday to check answers in this forum :wink:
By the way, more profitable your app become, more service you get from Bubble support
(when upgrading your plan).

It’s always a win win situation. Let’s have fun and program now! :wink:

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I agree with a lot of what @skylershelton discussed.

Bubble is a visual programming language; therefore it comes with all the perks and faults of other programming languages. Like all programming languages, they are tools to craft something nearly out of nothing. Yes, learning a programming language can be quite frustrating, but know that you are indirectly learning concepts taught in university level courses. The last tool I purchased was a multimeter. In its documentation, it only described what each setting does, not how to take measurements for every application. When it comes to Bubble’s documentation, I find that it is on par or exceeds the documentation of other programming languages. It is straight to the point, easily accessible from multiple points in the editor, and human readable. All that I expect from Bubble’s documentation is that it tells me what each function does. I do not expect it to explain and show me how it can be used; that part has always been solely up to the user.

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I see that you’ve interpreted constructive criticism as disloyalty (or something along those lines).

No it’s not. The biggest problem with the documentation is that it’s silent on too many things. It’s not being disloyal (or whatever) to point out that the the first sentence in the reference page says “This reference covers every feature and interface element element in Bubble…” and yet as soon as you stray from the tutorials you start running into stuff that’s missing or useless.

For example, there’s a PDF export plugin that’s just not mentioned at all. The team knows that and simply hasn’t gotten around to documenting it yet. There’s some stuff that’s mentioned, but no detail is added, like how the menu option “element” lets you pick an element (that’s the perfect place to explain stuff like how that list gets populated so you can figure out why the element you want isn’t in the list yet).

Yes it is. Bubble specifically targets people who don’t know how to code with the promise that they’ll be able to build functional software after a much shorter learning curve than learning to code. The idea is that you just need to know what you want to build.

In contrast, something like Heroku tells you on its front page that you’re going to have to know how to code to use it. You have to start learning Heroku after you’ve learn to code.

So the audience for something like Bubble is going to have a lot more newbies in it than something like Heroku. It has to be a school (or equivalent).

Get over yourself, you got that word from my post earlier where I literally wrote “But the important thing is that it’s just muddled, not nefarious.” For what it’s worth, I wrapped up with “…since I discovered Bubble I’ve found it valuable enough that I’m devoting time to researching it, understanding it, experimenting with it, using it, asking/answering questions, etc. If Bubble didn’t provide much value I would have just used it for the one thing I understood or abandoned it and moved on.”

I dig it. I’m building my app(s) on it. I’m actively improving the documentation by emailing content to the Bubble team that they can just copy/paste into the reference whenever I find something missing (since I can’t updated it myself). I WOULD be actively releasing components for others to use if that was possible, but it’s not a feature yet.

It’s important to see things as they actually are; no sugar coating. Bubble’s documentation is incomplete (even broken in some places) and their communication is haphazard (even muddled in some places). I still don’t think there’s anything wrong or mean about discussing that. You can blame the user all you want, but that won’t fix the documentation.

EDIT
Aaaaaand here we go. I didn’t even get 10 minutes into working in Bubble before running into an undocumented feature (what does “set list” do) and a response straight from the Bubble team that, no it’s not documented because they don’t think it needs to be. Documentation on list actions and that’s from back in January.

Partially. There isn’t much the Bubble team can do about someone who just doesn’t grok it.

However, there is something the Bubble team can do about explaining their platform clearly, including what it can’t actually do. For example, I had an idea for what I thought would be a simple app. After much experimentation, research, and Q&A directly with the Bubble team, it turns out that Bubble just can’t do a couple of the things I would need to do. That’s stuff that should be documented so that people like you don’t blame yourself when it’s just how the platform works, or doesn’t work.

Clear communication on that is important. When the communication is muddled or missing it needs to be a focus.

@blueback09 smh