Is bubble pricing mode making bubble unsustainable?

jamesdevonport · 2024-12-10T09:10:26.322Z

I’m increasingly migrating backend logic away from Bubble and into other services like Cloudflare Workers / Supabase etc.

For an app at scale that stores / queries / updates lots of data Bubble is simply not competitive on cost in any way, which is really sad.

I’m increasingly only going to be using Bubble as the front end editor for my app, rather than it being the full stack - but as others have said in this thread with AI generated code improving so much that might also then lead to moving the front end off Bubble as well at some point.

I was really hoping to see much more improvements with how Bubble works with data at scale for larger apps, and for it to be in some way cost competitve with the alternatives out there - Bubble is something like 100x more expensive than using Cloudflare Workers, it simply doesn’t make sense to use it for your backend if you’re processing lots of data.

ihsanzainal84 · 2024-12-10T12:17:24.972Z

I love Cloudflare. I know they have a bad rep, but I gotta admit that their cloud services are really top notch. Some are quite a margin cheaper than popular alternatives. AFAIK

I’m a Bubble advocate and I will most likely keep building on Bubble. I have the experience, I’m comfortable with working in the editor and weirdly…optimizing Bubble apps has become an insane guilty pleasure. That said, I have shifted some backend processes to Cloudflare. While most of my Bubble apps still run on Bubble, I find myself using custom scripts and building custom plugins (most of which I publish as free plugins) to work around things I find Bubble is not doing a good job of (Give me native control of my CSS dammit!)

Regardless, I believe I will always build on Bubble, but I’ll continue to offset costs by leveraging external services. Unless for some reason Bubble borks integration with other services (which would be insane).

You can apply the same argument of “xxx is not sustainable” to any development platform. Name me 1 popular app/web-app/cloud service, that has scaled, that relies on only one cloud solution for their entire stack.

Naturally scaling will always mean increased costs. It’s also natural for any dev (Bubble or otherwise) to look for bang-for-buck alternatives to run specific functions. It’s just the nature of development.

sem · 2024-12-10T13:01:25.074Z

ihsanzainal84:

You can apply the same argument of “xxx is not sustainable” to any development platform. Name me 1 popular app/web-app/cloud service, that has scaled, that relies on only one cloud solution for their entire stack.

This is the whole point. Bubble uses all sorts of technologies, draws a box around it and calls it a single cloud solution and there are a lot of users that believe this as well.

There are various ways of getting a result. Depending on the result you are looking for you have to decide what to use.

With current available technologies it would take about 5 experiences developers a year or so to present something that is capable of doing what Bubble does. With AI probably a few months.

It is a hard challenge when you are Bubble, what to do with 100 million in the bank? Do you build something that will surpass Bubble without a migration path for millions of Bubble accounts or do you stick to technology decisions made 10 years ago and offer backwards compatibility.

This is the reason lots of business that dominated the stock indexes 15 years ago are not doing that anymore today.

asked111 · 2024-12-10T13:40:44.476Z

Human beings usually want convenience above all else. As long as bubble keeps this in mind and at the core of what they build, they should be ok.

It’s why Apple was able to steal Napsters music download market even though they charged money at a time when people were getting the music for free. Apple made it less hassle than the rest, and soon dominated the market. As long as something is priced reasonably competitively, people are willing to pay for convenience.

At the moment bubble.io is very convenient, and reasonably priced - for the most part. However, the fact that many people are looking to migrate parts of their app to other services shows that there is something wrong. When it comes to certain tasks like mass data writes, it’s well off, and even convenience can’t justify it. Bubble needs to address this or they’ll lose customers. People shouldn’t have to be even considering moving some aspects of their app to supabase etc, as it defies the ‘all under one roof’ point of bubble in the first place! In other words it’s adding a layer of hassle and inconvenience, which is the big no-no.

My suggestion to the bubble team would be to do everything possible to encourage people to stay within the bubble ecosystem. Figure out what areas are making people reach for 3rd party solutions and then address those areas. Give people no reason why they’d ever need, or want, to go elsewhere.

patricia · 2024-12-10T14:54:09.403Z

Thanks everyone for sharing your thoughts on the pricing changes. Like many of you, I’ve been carefully considering the implications. While the new WU costs are significant for workflow-heavy applications, I’ve decided to stay with Bubble for now, and here’s why:

Development Speed & Accessibility

The visual development environment is great for rapid prototyping and MVP creation
The learning curve to do anything is substantially lower than traditional coding
The workflow editor makes complex business logic accessible to non-developers

Operational Simplicity

Single platform login manages everything from database to hosting
Unified dashboard for monitoring all aspects of the application
Consolidated billing simplifies accounting
No need to juggle multiple vendor relationships

Platform Stability

Bubble’s update management is notably less disruptive than managing multiple services
Breaking changes are rare and well-communicated
Updates are handled systematically at the platform level
Automatic database backups and version control included

Hidden Cost Advantages

No need for DevOps expertise or infrastructure management
Reduced complexity in deployment and maintenance
Built-in security features and compliance (if you bother to read the forum)
Automatic scaling without additional configuration

While my application is WU-intensive by nature, the overall value proposition still makes sense for now. That said, I’m keeping an eye on optimisation opportunities and will reassess. Obviously focusing on getting something working with a viable business model comes first, then WU optimisation next before considering migration - the development speed and operational benefits of staying in the Bubble ecosystem are substantial if this new WU pricing can be made work.

bubble125 · 2024-12-10T16:31:56.565Z

For me as a newbie just creating his own app, the pricing seems quite fair. Although, the step from starter to growth seems a bit steep. I think at least an additional editor should be able with the start plan. This is especially important for beginners seeking help from experienced bubblers.

sem · 2024-12-10T16:50:09.808Z

It is a great platform to start your first app!

Most people “complaining” like me have different needs. In our case we need to deal with 10.000 transactions per second. Easily possible with a $10 a month server but hard with Bubble.

But most do not have such kind of app here and if they do it will be mainly enterprise apps with large monthly sums coming per customer meaning WU pricing is no concern.

boston85719 · 2024-12-11T06:07:32.910Z

Yes, for reasons like in this post

WU bugs - overcharged Bugs

We need more community engagement on uncovering WU bugs In one simple test, to verify if using recurring WFs is less costly than using schedule api workflow, I did a simple setup and test. Setup below Simple recurring trigger - No Conditions [Send email daily recurring trigger] Simple send email action - No conditions [Reucrring Workflow send email action action] Simple Set recurring action [Set Recurring Workflow Button Click] Please keep in mind for the following, there are no c…

If Bubble can not publicly display all of the charges we will incur and the actions that will cause those charges to be incurred, and if Bubble is unable to properly label all the charges, and if Bubble is unable to provide logical explanations with math that adds up properly for the charges, then Bubble is in trouble as most people who are not already locked in, will just open the door and leave as soon as they encounter these types of things.

I wouldn’t think the pricing is unsustainable if Bubble had not procrastinated for 18 months doing nothing for WUs and then after forcing the switch, had actually addressed the issues raised…but that is not happening.

dmcoyotesi · 2024-12-11T07:08:05.160Z

Hi.

In my opinion, the real issue here is not price, but unpredictability. In my case, I charge a fixed fee to my users, but my costs are not fixed, or even predictable, since they depend on what the users decide to do.

It is very hard to build a business around this, when you are not sure about the price you need to charge your users to make sure that you don’t lose money.

Regards.

alex.chen · 2024-12-11T07:29:57.685Z

Does Bubble offer any single-tenant options for users who want dedicated infrastructure? This could be a solution for those who need more predictable performance and don’t want to be affected by other users’ resource usage. While I understand it would be more expensive than the shared hosting, it might be worth it for certain use cases where resource isolation is critical.

sem · 2024-12-11T08:00:04.362Z

Yes they have. It is about $3500 a month I think. When you start your business, need to test a lot, offer things for free, make mistakes all with yet no profit this might be a bit much for most startups

adam0112 · 2024-12-11T11:01:37.016Z

For a ‘developer’, the ability to allocate resources reasonably is a necessary skill. However, as @rpetribu mentioned, many beginners lack this knowledge. While charging based on server usage seems fair, there might be a situation where Bubble should actually offer certain database CRUD operations for free. I recently came across a platform on YouTube

image1920×1030 135 KB

where they only charge $120/month for unlimited RPS, not to mention that database operations are completely free in their free tier. Bubble has fundamental flaws in their backend processing. @alex.chen maybe you should check this platform. $3500 for a startup seems absurd.

senecadatabase · 2024-12-11T12:01:39.822Z

dmcoyotesi:

In my opinion, the real issue here is not price, but unpredictability. In my case, I charge a fixed fee to my users, but my costs are not fixed, or even predictable, since they depend on what the users decide to do.

That does seem to be the main issue.

It’s like going to the bank to get a car loan and asking how much the monthly payment is…

the bank says that for each mile driven, it’s .05. But if it’s driving uphill, it’s .09, and coasting downhill would be .02. If it’s above 60 mph, it’s .08. For every minute the car is running, it’s .03. If it’s running and driving, it’s .07, and every time you start it, it’s .10. And also…

Then they say you can get the starter package for $50 a month, but if you go over, your car just won’t operate.

Or you can spend $3500 a month and be ok.

Bubble is a great platform and has a lot of benefits…it’s the whole pricing thing that is just so confusing and I don’t understand why it has to be.

georgecollier · 2024-12-11T12:03:37.864Z

Do I need to add a WU analysis bot to NQU Secure

senecadatabase · 2024-12-11T12:05:12.933Z

That would be good!

Your other app which I was going to comment on is a huge help.

adamhholmes · 2024-12-11T12:15:02.834Z

georgecollier:

Do I need to add a WU analysis bot to NQU Secure

It wouldn’t be a bad idea… (I’m sure it would be very useful).

But the notion that external third-party services are required for people to have any chance of understanding Bubble’s pricing only emphasises the problems with it, in my view.

georgecollier · 2024-12-11T12:15:49.061Z

adamhholmes:

the notion that external third-party services are required for people to have any chance of understanding Bubble’s pricing only emphasises the problems with it, in my view.

No doubt.

axons · 2024-12-11T12:22:58.613Z

You’re absolutely right! As a developer one need to understand how to optimize processes, reduce workload, and ensure better resource efficiency. It’s always satisfying to see how thoughtful implementations can have such a tangible impact on clients’ operations. Great work!

ihsanzainal84 · 2024-12-11T13:01:56.861Z

I agree with everyone’s point regarding unpredictability when it comes to WU.

I just wanted to chime in that there was a conversation/article/post (it was a while back) by Bubble that the ideal journey of a Bubble dev is to become a dedicated plan subscriber.

Whether or not we agree with it, that is something that IMO is one of the many goals that guides the Bubble team.

Before everyone puts on their tin foil hat, I’m not saying that there is some conspiracy of “making WU incomprehensible” because of it. Opposite in fact. The hires and updates by the team, while arguably slow or insufficient, show that they are trying to find a good balance (of features and fixes) for both new and experienced users as we make our way through that journey.

From all the posts I’ve read by the team and users alike (sharing stories of Bubble Support woes), it’s obvious that lots of issues today stem from the tech debt created from the team’s bootstrapping days.

randomanon · 2024-12-11T13:21:40.320Z

The WU model is fine but they need to just reduce the overall costs by around 30-50% and possibly 200-500% for server-side actions which have a 15,000% markup.