[merged discussion] Who is Bubble for and what features make sense

fede.bubble · 2024-11-26T14:53:28.291Z

I see that users keep going off-topic in last week’s Flusk features now available across all Bubble paid plans announcement so I’m moving all those posts to this discussion thread to keep things organized.

mghatiya · 2024-11-24T16:35:36.990Z

Flusk features now available across all Bubble paid plans

There are costs associated with security monitoring services and it’s not outlandish to require additional cost for additional features

Then they should charge for features instead of having super super heavy mark-ups on workload units as compared to what those processings etc are charged by AWS etc.
WUs are so heavily marked-up with the logic that there are so many other things that Bubble does apart from enabling that functionality.

Better would be that Bubble charges a base fee for platform and then have tiers for different features and have workload units at minuscule mark-up.

If that happens then this argument would hold in my opinion.

thatdevguy · 2024-11-24T16:47:31.034Z

@mghatiya I guess I’m having trouble understanding what your point is regarding the topic in discussion. It sounds like you’re unhappy with bubble’s cost structure in general. My point was that it’s a good thing when security products make their way into a platform’s ecosystem, even at additional cost.

georgecollier · 2024-11-24T16:58:11.026Z

mghatiya:

Then they should charge for features instead of having super super heavy mark-ups on workload units as compared to what those processings etc are charged by AWS etc.

Charging by usage is a pretty fair way to make people who use it more (and have successful apps) pay more, whilst apps with low usage won’t pay much.

If you can’t cover your Bubble costs with less than 20% of your app’s revenue (or its ‘value created’ if it’s an internal tool) then it’s probably not the right app to build on Bubble, because it would indicate you’re doing heavy data processing which Bubble isn’t great for.

senecadatabase · 2024-11-25T00:48:56.017Z

The whole nocode movement wasn’t designed for those who go the route of paying a company to code an app from the ground up.

It was designed for people who are sitting at home with an idea and want to give it a go.

I like Bubble, but I worry about some of the decisions when it comes to WUs, etc.

Hopefully, everything works out for them because I really am pulling for the platform.

sem · 2024-11-25T16:22:45.200Z

I am still very interesting as to for which apps this works.

For complex software the cost in most cases will never be more than 10% if revenue, and in most cases around 1%.

Moving around some custom states and screens can indeed provide value but there are lots of tools that can do that well, cheaper and faster than Bubble.

As soon as you are starting and have lots of visitors and a conversion of a typical few % it can quickly become too costly on Bubble.

For enterprise software charging 100x for mediocre software it works fine. But the closer you get to users using the app also paying for it there are not many user cases where the economics of Bubble work I think.

georgecollier · 2024-11-25T16:41:26.010Z

sem:

there are not many user cases where the economics of Bubble work I think.

If your product works, you have paying users, and it’s only the economics of Bubble that don’t work for you, then just migrate away when you’ve got product market fit. Bubble’s still provided it’s value by allowing you to validate your idea with very little financial risk.

However, the proportion of apps that need to migrate away when hitting substantial scale is always getting smaller with Bubble.

When you, as a non-technical founder or moderately technical business owner, can build almost any product or tool for $30/mo (if it takes you 3 months that’s <$100 total), I don’t see how you could reasonably bash Bubble’s pricing. Sure, you can bash the implementation of it, but the actual amount that you spend? It seems like a pretty good deal to me.

The value of Bubble is immense and comparing Bubble’s raw cost to a traditional stack misses the point of Bubble entirely. There are people here who will micromanage every WU… the way to save the most WU is to not use Bubble… but you’d be shooting yourself in the foot with the opportunity cost of not using the platform to build something you otherwise wouldn’t because of time or financial risk!

sem · 2024-11-25T18:19:38.101Z

It is not $30 dollars a month for the more complex apps. Yes, as I said, moving some data and screens is $30. Handling lots of data and do computations on it will quickly need a dedicated server which is 100x more.

Keeping it on €30 for something simple means you need often scale because the users will add value. But in that case it will not be $30 either as you will quickly eat up millions of WU when hundred of thousand enter your app.

So it is a sweet spot at which Bubble can excel in its current pricing and capabilities. Would be very interesting to see which use cases really work and which not. Technical we know by now what does not work. Business wise with the new prices? Not sure. Would be very interesting!

georgecollier · 2024-11-25T18:22:11.005Z

sem:

when hundred of thousand enter your app.

At which point you have hundreds of thousands of dollars (or you’re doing something wrong) and can build with traditional stack if you need to

sem · 2024-11-25T18:29:49.568Z

That’s perhaps the problem. Too much people think that users = lots of money

Suppose you hit some big sites with your launch in beta. You get 100.000 hits to your app, stout conversion is pretty good at 2% so 2000 users sign up for a 30 day trial. They test everything and if those %2 starts to pay. There you have it. Pretty good conversion rates at the start and a whopping $400. Bubble will probably cost about $800 a month.

Especially in the beginning it is sales and marketing which is the hardest and most costly of everything. But if you do hit some nice numbers you suddenly are afraid for the Bubble invoice entering you mailbox. Let alone what will happen if you made a mistake…eating up millions of WU or else you whole app is down.

senecadatabase · 2024-11-26T04:13:54.602Z

I don’t think Bubble will change its pricing plan.

So, it’s really a business decision on your part if you want to adapt or go to another platform.

I believe the oldest nocode platform that’s been around since 2000 and is ranked #1 on G2 charges by the data tables. Their lowest tier program starts around 100 per month and allows something like 20,000 tables? I’d have to look it up.

I did have a rep from the company call me and quite frankly I didn’t think he even knew what he was talking about because everything I asked him he said he’d have to look up and get back to me.

The big ad they run on Google ads says something to the effect they don’t start the meter every time a user visits your site.

But they do have millions of users and some of the biggest companies out there.

A few years ago the company I worked for was working with Casper Mattress. They were the fastest-growing mattress company of all time. My company told them their pricing structure wasn’t sustainable and they disregarded the notion.

They’ve since been delisted and gone to private ownership after their failed pricing structure.

I can understand how a surprise bill would be a shock, especially during peak shopping seasons. However, I do think Bubble has put safeguards in place that can help mitigate those surprises?

It’s really a matter of looking at all your options and deciding which one works best for your company.

chris.williamson1996 · 2024-11-26T04:25:38.053Z

sem:

That’s perhaps the problem. Too much people think that users = lots of money

A lot of users do = a lot of money. If you’re not generating revenue through a large user base it comes down to your marketing and sales funnel.

There definitely are models bubble may not fit the best for but in most cases factoring in the cost of the platform to be profitable is not hard or unobtainable.

senecadatabase · 2024-11-26T04:36:24.912Z

I do think what you said is true.

However, and I’ve said this before…

a lot of times those who have used a platform for a while forget what it was like when they were brand new and learning it.

Pricing can be scary trying to figure out when nothing is in black and white.

There can be surges at times and lulls at other times.

Charging per page load or fetching data can be very confusing to calculate when you don’t always know what the traffic will be.

I do realize there are safeguards in place that can help with this and that’s something I’m currently working on understanding.

It is a process and it can be very confusing to new users.

I say ‘new users’ but also understand most new users aren’t concerned with all the WU stuff YET. They’re just wanting to get an MVP off the ground.

sem · 2024-11-26T06:28:08.063Z

Most if not all successful companies start with lots of traffic, minimum sale. There is a reason why there are so many marketeers and agencies telling people how simple it is to make money online while not doing it themselves. It is hard.

So you need time, often some money to get your first customers in with marketing and if you are lucky and get many users hitting your server it is mainly for you to learn and adjust rather than selling.

But the b2b works a bit different, higher marketing spend per customer but also higher LTV. Enterprise even longer sales cycles and costs but much higher LTV and the buyer is often not the user so marketing a dream does sell on that level even when the software is crappy.

Anyway, we will see.

rico.trevisan · 2024-11-26T10:17:40.584Z

chris.williamson1996:

A lot of users do = a lot of money. If you’re not generating revenue through a large user base it comes down to your marketing and sales funnel.

Or – hear me out – you get VC funding and never make money from users. *

A couple of years ago here in Brussels I could get groceries cheaper and faster than actually going to the store (and I live like 10 meters from one). Those business are all gone now after the VC cash dried out. I believe those business models were called VC-to-B-to-C.

* by the way, this is sarcasm, I’ve seen a couple of friends go frazzled trying to achieve unrealistic return for VCs. Instead, they could have continued building small, respectable independent businesses.)