Pricing updates and thoughts

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Team at the beginning will strengthen the use of Bubble.

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Not sure we can consider a 2-5 dev team a “startup” don’t you think?
And which alternative do you want to use? Be careful when comparing pricing… (Example, Wappler for 5 users (business) is around 325 USD without hosting and infrastructure…
But I agree that the step is too high

Well, I have done a few startups over the years, and I always have a bunch of part time people to start, but they all need to be on the application at the same time. I understand your point, but essentially it is 475/month for 2 people or 15, as i understand it, so I think that having the professional plan having the ability to do multiple versions would also help significantly, as soon as you go to 2 users, you can not really co-develop without stepping on each other.

Hi I understand. Didn’t think about part time :wink: Like I said, I agree that paid plan should have more “team” feature

The new professional plan allows 2 developers $115 per month

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That is helpful for sure, but we need a way to do 3 developers growing to 5 or 6, but that is better than one!

20%20AM

I am really struggling with the giant jump from 2 dev versions to 20 and collaborators from 2 to 15. I understand how hard it is for pricing as a startup, but looking at the audience and if you want to bring no code to production applications, you need the ability to grow with a team. I have read that 475 a month for 15 collaborators and 20 development versions is a deal, and I agree 100% with the pricing on that. That makes sense and is a great value, but as a startup paying for dramatically more capability than you need in the early stages is just a back breaker.

I think you should be able to pay for what you need, nothing more, but nothing less. It is probably a pain to make it so you could just increase your bill every time you add a person, but that would really promote scaling.

Now that we have had a sample of multiple development versions to solve the problem of having one person at a time developing, it is clear this a great solution.

So - I have no problem with the pricing, just the tiers. I would like to pay to play as I grow, but the jump from 2-15 collaborators jumps over the sizes of most startups I know of. Also giving each team member their own development version keeps people productive, so my little chart is just one suggestion to add a “pre-production” development team size, that I think would cover a lot more startups than 2 people or the jump to 15. At 5 collaborators, paying 475 to go to 6 is still a big jump but at that stage of the company, I can see it, if it is too hard to make it so you could pay for exactly the number of collaborators and development versions and server units you need.

Am i that far off base? Are most people individuals using bubble and it is just too early for teams? Do companies like AirDev only have one or two people working on a project at a time? Am i just one of those PIA customers that is not easily satisfied or unwilling to pay for 5 times the resource that I need at this stage in a development?

I am hopeful that I can find a solution that is not a work around and a major burden to a development team that has us looking elsewhere for solutions. We are committed to Bubble, but how do we survive for the scaling from 3-5 people without paying for 15?

Thanks for listening -

Craig

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Ooooh I love this Petite plan. I would definitely use it. Please @emmanuel et .al consider implementing a mid way plan like this, it would be very popular.

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Any update on this emanuel? I appreciate it.

Yes we’re doing this this week.

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Thank you I think it looks much better. Just a little text bleeding over the bottom edge here:

Kazam_screenshot_00067

Firefox.

Looks really nice.

Crazy to see how many Bubblers are migrating over to Wappler :pensive:. They have a pinned post in their forum detailing the differences between the two no-code platforms and it includes quite a few Bubble veterans. The most concerning thing for me is that some crucial plugin builders here have gone quiet and it’s only occurred to me that they’ve moved over to Wappler.

I’d urge Bubble to watch Wappler closely, especially because they’ve just confirmed that they are building a built-in database management tool. That would be enough for me to move over, as it’s the main reason I (and probably many others) haven’t migrated yet.

Wappler is beating Bubble in nearly every aspect. Here are just a few reasons why:

  • Fully responsive design with the Bootstrap 4 Framework.
  • Full native mobile app support via Cordova and Framework 7.
  • Versioning (GIT)
  • Performance (page speeds are literally instant).
  • No per-app pricing. (Bubble’s pricing isn’t necessarily affecting me yet, however, as someone with multiple Bubble applications, it makes perfect sense to move to Wappler’s more affordable pricing).

I’ll also add that Wappler are probably able to charge lower prices because they don’t handle/control hosting, unlike Bubble, allowing them to lower their costs, thus, lower their prices.

As I’ve mentioned previously, Wappler is currently far too advanced for me. However, after having a quick glance at their forum, it’s quite clear that they are planning to make changes in the near future that will make it easier for people like me to use their platform.

I urge Bubble once again to watch their competition closely and act.

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Wappler is a completely different experience when it comes to build something. Look closely and you will see that this is just advanced service like wix and similar to them. Bubble is a way better and with a completely different way of building apps. Have a look at one of the wappler video tutorials where they show how to create a crud in 20 minutes, they spend most of the time just for a simple DB request in order to update, create or delete things, where in bubble it takes a minutes only. I personally find a bubble responsive design much more practical and advanced for a people with a coding background and will be very disappointed if bubble will take a wappler as an example for this. There are always room for the improvements, but I think that bubble should keep a same way how we design our apps in editor.

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As much as I admire and acknowledge your response, you are simply wrong. Wappler’s use of the Bootstrap 4 Framework offers a much better responsive structure for its apps than Bubble’s current system. Although Bubble’s responsive structure gives you a lot of control, there are some HUGE limitations - have a look at this post: Collapsable Width

Furthermore, I’m not sure I quite understand what you are saying about speed, however, what I can assure you is that Wappler is much faster than Bubble in terms of page speed, data creation, data modification and data deletion. I did a page speed test between a complex Wappler website with lots of traffic/data (https://www.eliasimoveis.com.br/) and a Bubble template with barely any traffic/data (https://thefreelandingpage.bubbleapps.io/) and the load times were 1-2 seconds and 5-8 seconds respectively.

For you to say Wappler is similar to Wix just shows that you really haven’t done your research. Wix is mainly used for static landing/marketing pages and hasn’t got the ability to create complex applications such as SaaS applications like Bubble or Wappler.

I am by no means saying I prefer Wappler to Bubble (as of yet :see_no_evil:), in fact, I prefer Bubble’s canvas style approach and even think it’s genius, as it gives the user more freedom to build and design apps, as opposed to Wappler’s drag-and-drop style approach. All I am saying is that we should not turn a blind eye to the competition. I’ve seen companies go bust because of this - mine included! As a Bubble fan, I’d want to see Bubble implement some of the above features Wappler has.

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I do agree that Bubble is more advanced than Wappler, and I think it’s an awesome product.

But I don’t agree with your statement regarding bubble responsive design much more practical and advanced for people with a coding background.

I have a coding background (more backend than frontend though), and Bubble’s responsive design is (at least for me) pretty time-consuming, because it uses absolute values to visually place the elements in the page. What I mean is that you manually place an element in an absolute X,Y coordinate (like what you do in a Powerpoint document), whereas in Wappler you do the same as in HTML, you place elements relatively to one another. This is much faster, and elements place themselves gracefully with eatchother in the page (if you don’t talk about the ‘position’ element in CSS of course…).

Bubble’s design allows you to be very precise in how you place an element in a page, but it makes it pretty difficult to tell how that elements displays relative to the rest of the elements.

I hope I made sense :smiley:

Regards.

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  1. You say that Bubble is more advanced than Wappler - how so? Do you mean there are things Bubble can do, that Wappler can’t do? (I mean without coding). What is an example of something specific that Bubble can do in the Workflow logic that Wappler can’t do?

  2. Bubble has States and the if/then/else in the Workflow logic and editor - is it difficult or just different to do these things in Wappler?

Wappler is not a match to Bubble.is at current stage. I will stay with Bubble.

I have tried to work with Wappler but it confuses me and I don’t enjoy it. With Bubble it’s fun to see the result of hand drawn designs. I really enjoy to work with Bubble.

It’s like a video game :smiley:

Look at this hour long video to make a secured login page with Wappler LOL…

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Can i edit the web apps created with Wappler in other code editors?

Absolutely! Wappler creates clean HTML, CSS and JS code, which can be edited in any text/code editor.

Do you offer hosting for my apps?

No, we do not offer hosting with Wappler. You can just use any hosting provider out there to publish your files.

I like the above features of Wappler.

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It’s more advanced in the sense of abstraction of code. In Wappler you are more exposed to coding from the beginning.

For a non-coder the learning curve of Wappler is bigger than Bubble. But you are actually learning web standards. So that learning curve is time well spent.

In Bubble you are learning Bubble.

In Wappler you are learning html, CSS, js, PHP/ASP and several frameworks(bootstrap, framework 7, Cordova).

I do agree that the point, drag and click approach of Bubble is neat. If you are not a total UI/UX potato you are able to create a nice looking app very quickly.

But this neat feature will come to bite you eventually. And then you will start to set element IDs and patch everything.

So now you are actually learning html, CSS and JavaScript just to fight Bubble. And you are the one who will lose that fight. If not today, tomorrow when they change something.

You are learning to code to make Bubble turn against itself. It is ridiculous if you ask me.

Is Bubble still useful and a great tool? Of course. But not so much as before. And for sure not so much after all the pricing/paywall nonsense.

I also agree with everything Mr Bond, @jamesbond said up there.

And yeah Wappler is not Wix…Wappler is Dreamweaver on steroids.

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