An Update to Workload, Plus More Transparent Calculations

I like how you asked me to put my big boy pants on and went on to make the word degenerate bold :joy: hopefully school starts for you soon.

Back on topic - thank you to everyone who is still active and pushing for answers. Bubble will do nothing unless and until we demand improvements.

Hopefully things will improve with more WU optimizations and cost reductions.

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“Hopefully” is doing a lot of work here.

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:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

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fair price’ depends on which side you’re on. In the end, the cost-benefit relationship will do the job."

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“Fair Price” by definition means fair for all parties, which is not the case here. The problem is, that market dynamics tend to place excessive weighting on popularity or rarity of a product… meaning a price often ends up being higher than is reasonable.

Bubble leverages this to their favour, knowing there isn’t a lot of comparable alternatives out there, forcing us to “suck it up”. This is not “fair” behaviour, as not once did they bother to ask the community what a fair price might be, apart from a survey a long while back that at no point mentioned the intent to barrel down this consumption model path, which benefits only them in the vast majority of cases.

Throughout this whole saga, the one defining factor is that bubble proves they just don’t care to listen or reflect on our concerns. There are no responses to genuine concerns, no engagement, no self-reflection, and even wilful ignorance in their tone deaf response announcing new features. I personally could not care less for any new features they release, as I have halted all development of my app in bubble. It’s clear they don’t care for my patronage, they clearly don’t care for the community or the innovators, and they clearly don’t care if any one of us might just be the next google.

Apparently they would much rather alienate an entire community, destroy their well-earned credibility and trust, all for the sake of a few dollars. Trust takes years to earn, seconds to destroy. Don’t be surprised to see the story of bubble go into business management lectures in future of how to destroy a successful business in a stroke of a pen.

Just watch as bubble competitors pick up the influx of new customers, and build an alternative to bubble. I highly doubt any nocode platforms have been sitting on their hands without working on a front end capability - they were just biding their time. Xano has my patronage now, backendless has a front end capability (although immature), it won’t take much to replace bubble from a tech stack perspective, if the competition is willing to invest.

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Sadly, I think hope is going to lose here. It clearly hasn’t been doing us any favours so far. All I can hope for is that enough people leave bubble that they realise their catastrophic error, before it’s too late to correct. Bubble management has a lot to answer for on this entire saga.

…yet.

There was a poor communication strategy for implementing new prices, as someone commented in the forum: “they put the cart before the horse”. Hopefully, Bubble will evaluate and make corrections that receive greater approval from the community.

To be pedant: noodle announced a plan to publish their code under open source licenses. No real code has been published yet. Going open source is different from telling you want to go open source at some point.

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In case you missed recent reply from Josh about new pricing model and so on:

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Would be willing to pay a lot just for a one time export tbh, even if it was without the editor. Anything to move my project off of bubble since its either that or shut it down come 2024 when the pricing change becomes forced.

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I found the response from Josh very welcoming. He pointedly explained why the pricing changes were implemented, making it clearer the way Bubble is thinking and expecting to expand and improve.

Smart money was placed on bet to stay on legacy plan (or increase to higher legacy if expected need within next 18 month period) and wait 6 months to allow Bubble to prove they have the intentions and the wherewithal to follow through on promises made to add the necessary features to help build optimally.

He also made it very clear that they have the expectation that the costs associated with the pricing model will be re-evaluated with a larger data set.

The statement made me feel more confident in Bubble, although my plans are not changed which is giving another 5 months to see those types of features released before I start migrating my personal apps off Bubble if no material changes are made in that time frame.

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I had something sassy written but i didn’t want to hurt the anyone else’s feelings.

@boston85719 It was a tough pill to swallow but it was kind of expected. Good on Josh for being more transparent.

It is similar to my approach when I was dating. Honest and Open to allow others to make the best decisions for themselves. Tell others exactly what you are doing and why so they know how to best proceed according to their own needs/desires and have their expectations set properly.

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I’ve effectively halted all development in bubble and frozen any launch plans. The app is now dormant until I rebuild it in WeWeb & Xano. So far Xano has proven incredibly powerful as a backend provider, and I have yet to find a feature I miss from bubble since starting my dev work in WeWeb. Yes, Xano is a steep learning curve in some respects (e.g. DB joins don’t work the way you would expect, speaking from someone who worked as a DBA for 10+ years!) - but once you get your head around it, it absolutely demolishes bubble’s backend capabilities in every way possible.

WeWeb is perhaps even steeper as a learning curve as the UI is a lot more complicated to navigate, and also offers native code capabilities PLUS client side… but pay for an annual plan, and guess what? You can export as a native Vue.js package, then host yourself. Honestly, I am actually thankful for bubble’s pricing changes now, as it’s forced me to prepare for the next stage in development with far more suitable platforms for startups - plus learning a bit more about APIs and native JS - it’s win-win all round as far as I’m concerned. I guess this is why my app workload looks like this now in bubble:
image

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Hey David,

I’m kinda in the same situation but starting with FlutterFlow (based in Flutter, and Firebase or Supabase as backend). I also gave an eye to Weweb, but decided to try with FlutterFlow for now.
So I’m curious, in case you know about the ones I mentioned, what makes you go for Weweb, do you think is the most potential tool for future plans?

PS: I also felt kind of upset to have this paralyzing moment with Bubble project, because other tools out there are probably not as easy and complete solutions, but I got excited after seeing there is a whole new world of likely better solutions for app scalability, like Weweb and FF.

Have you both tried Wappler? Tried flutterflow, this is great for mobile native apps. But now for web apps. Also, in flutterflow, you can’t make a whole website with it. Not recommended if you need web capabilities.

Tried wappler, so far, everything is hard to learn at first. But once you get it, there’s no turning back and the possibilities are endless. Also, you immediately get the code and can directly edit it if you need and still works in wappler.

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Hi Shu,

I tried Wappler 1-2 years ago in the past Bubble pricing fever, but I found it low-code and since I have not coding skills, I found it too difficult to start, and not sure if I will fit its learning curve. Normally I don’t care if the learning curve is long, if documentation and forum is supporting, but I didn’t find much for no coders there.
This last month, after the new Bubble pricing crisis, I considered it again, but went for more no-code solutions, like Weweb and FF. Though I guess that for more coding-skilled people, Wappler can be amazing, because is just the interface helping building the app without limits and you are not tied to it.

Regarding FF, for now I’m only interested in web app indeed, I saw it was conceived as mobile language, but also I saw they are adapting to web development, so still hoping it won’t be a problem for web app. Though, also I must say FF is far more complex than Bubble, frontend itself and backend because you have to learn and integrate it with Firestore or Supabase. And for what I see, the flutter widgets that you can add, for people that know more about coding (not me XD), allows you to enhance for any feature you want.

The community/documentation is also very small in comparison with Bubble, but I’m trying to find something that gives confident and potential for future years. It means, I’m happy to invest a year learning/mastering a new software, if it provides a trustable and powerful environment for the future years coming. To avoid precisely what happened with Bubble, than after few years learning and building, we have to move away.

PS: I also tried Noodl, Drapcode, Bildr (very powerful too), and some others… but at end I was hesitating between Weweb and FF, I found FF pricing more scalable for doing multiple projects, but I don’t know if Weweb might be better or faster, that’s why maybe @davidthorpie can tell us something :wink:

Hi, @atlasproject !

I too am (probably like you) a no-coder and have probably spent half my life looking for a project like Bubble and am very frustrated with its latest “price innovations”. I’ve already started building my own project, which I couldn’t do in any of the 15+ no-code/low-code platforms I’ve explored. I’m on the verge of getting frustrated and am also starting to explore other platforms where there will be some certainty about tomorrow. You mentioned Drapcode in the post, I started looking into it too, contacting managers. It seemed more or less responsive to me and inclined specifically towards a no-code platform. There’s a lot of videos and documentation, but I’m wary of the fact that it’s not that popular, there’s an underdeveloped community (only up to 100 forum posts the last time I saw it). I also didn’t find any important sections in the documentation - workflow. The pages there are empty… Although visual builder seems to be good (on bootstrap) and database builder looks good too (what is missing in Bubble - there everything is very simplified, sometimes you need to structure it, but there is no possibility).

Also I’ve seen a platform like Noodl , but I haven’t studied it, I do not know how much comfort it is to work no-code functionality, until what point do I need to learn php, js and database queries? I also paid attention to FlutterFlow, but I also noticed that it is primarily designed for mobile applications, while I need a web application with complex architecture, processes (event action, on click/on page load/custom state events actions etc.) and design, lots of links and displaying data from different tables in the database on the single page. What can you tell me about these platforms, how much research have you done? Any advice would be appreciated!

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For what it’s worth, folks, there is a recent almost 500-post thread about alternatives to Bubble. Yeah, I’m guessing that won’t stop this thread from turning into the same thing, but if you want to talk about alternatives to Bubble, it’s been done pretty thoroughly in the other thread.

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