[New Thread] More context on our changes to pricing - FAQs answered

Yeah, I don’t think pricing by work unit is necessarily a bad thing.

The issue is that WU calculations aren’t transparent and the price per unit is wildly overinflated to the extent that a significant proportion of users applications (revenue generating or not) will become prohibitively expensive.

Theoretically, the work unit model allows for easier scalability - but it means nothing when the $/WU does not.

Hopefully the team produce an update later this week that addresses some of the community’s concerns. Important to remember that the reason why users are so frustrated is that they know Bubble is a great product and want to build great companies with it.

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Building their apps lol. All joking aside, the past few days has been really, really difficult to be a moderator (like me, who is a volunteer by the way), a Bubble team member, or someone who reacted positive. I personally had death threats on the forum when I spoke up in defense of the new model. There was a lot of toxicity aimed at specific individuals, so it wasn’t exactly a welcoming environment to have a positive discussion.

Being a volunteer moderator for someone else’s company isn’t worth death threats or people sending me nasty messages on LinkedIn, so I kept my mouth shut until things calmed down a bit. I imagine others did the same.

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I saw a few people on YouTube and Twitter immediately praise the change after the release. The real story is they didn’t actually test it or take a look at their own metrics… quick post a video ASAP, click bait, get views. They’ve all been quiet the last 48 hours.

This WU calculation simply not feasible for 95% of the current users. I hope it was an oversight. I hope it’s fixed and Bubble remains viable for all of us. That doesn’t fix the poor communication. That doesn’t fix the lost trust. Regardless of how this turns around I’ve already changed a key aspect of my front-end architecture. Now the question is, will I use Bubble at all? The next announcement will decide that.

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I am sorry that you experienced such poor behaviour. That is uncalled for. We’re frustrated, sure, but threats and bullying are uncalled for.

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I totally agree, and appreciate that! I certainly wasn’t the only one. I can understand the passion and frustration for people, but the attacks got really personal really fast haha. Anyway, back on topic…I’ll put my neck out there and say that I still have faith that the Bubble team will get this right. I don’t expect everybody to share my optimism, but I’ll say that I’m hopeful. There just isn’t another option out there that works like Bubble does with the history that Bubble has, so I’m keeping fingers crossed!

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That’s absolutely horrendous! So sorry you’ve had go through that, there is absolutely no need for that from anyone. It’s tough what’s happening and we know that people’s livelihoods could be severely affected but nothing is worth threatening people. I never in a million years thought it would get to that level, those people have lost all sense of perspective. I hope you’re OK.

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The time window until April 30th is way too short. I have no chance to optimise my app within three weeks. But only after an optimisation I see how much it will probably cost under the (revised) WU-model. I feel pressured to make a decision without being able to assess the real options - that seems unfair to me.

I think many users need some months to optimise their apps. Please give them that time and let them make an informed decision then on how to proceed.

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Man… people really go to far!

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I fully agree with @andrewgassen. I am also willing to back the Bubble team in getting this right and making a better system for all. We know the team so well. They all work very hard at Bubble. No mentioning names, but from entry level to senior, everyone has done their best for us.

The model benefits our clients, as the apps should be better performant, though we have yet to fully test this, this would make us happy.

The calculation, is what needs working on, i.e. clear / easy to understand pricing points and further testing to make sure it matches what was intended and envisaged. They did intend a price increase but I am sure they will understand with reflection they could have handled this better. But this does not take-away my faith in the competence as the best low-code platform and team in the market.

This should have never have happened. I hope you can report this to Bubble and escalate via them with the Police. This should not be brushed under the carpet, everyone should maintain decorum and be professional. What you described, is outrageous behaviour.

Omar

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That’s disgusting behaviour and I hope you (and others who give up their own time to support the community) don’t feel unable to call that type of activity out.

I agree we need to let things settle - possibly the only thing Id address immediately is extend the May deadline to give everyone a better understanding of how the metrics will impact our builds and make a more informed choice about next steps.

I might not like the WU model as it stands but the opportunity to improve my code with the help of Bubble is something Im keen to see regardless - so good things can still come from this.

JW

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Well, when I’m not developing, I tend to do silly things…
:point_up:
This is for fun though :sunglasses:

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:rofl: love it but in reality they probably have to coordinate between investors expectations, community expectations, and everything. If they jumped on a response it could’ve left someone very disappointed. To be fair though it’s not like having a whole year to plan this did any different :man_shrugging::rofl:

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Don’t you think its funny when people try to compare the cost of bubble with the cost of tradicional coding?

Bubble founders were at the heart of the nocode movement and it seems they don’t know the world they created.

The comparison should never be with tradicional coding, not anymore.

The cost of software development was completely changed by nocode platforms and the only reasonable comparison in these days is with the cost of other nocode platforms that offer similar resources. And I am sorry for bubble, but there are MANY out there, and many yet to come.

I had no dev background. Bubble was my school in web development.

I would have been very happy to stay with bubble for life, but now it just feels like an ex girlfriend. I have a special place for it in my memories, but it will never be the same if we get back together.

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Agreed @andrewgassen, and sorry to hear it was a rough week. Being a mod can really suck.

On the topic of where are the apps that aren’t impacted, while my production app that does calendar stuff is wildly overpriced in the new model, one of my plugin test apps might still fit on a starter plan, depending upon what I’m doing/testing in a given time frame (it’s easy to make it burn 10s of thousands of WUs in a very short timeframe.

Anyway, I think folks who may think they’re not negatively impacted might just not have done the math yet. I note that I did about 20 minutes of fiddling with my silly “drag & drop” Sinatra gallery demo (used for my videos about Floppy’s drag/drop RG feature). This is basically an Airbnb-style picture gallery manager like a lot of social or marketplace or photo/creative/portfolio apps might have.

Just messing around with it for about 20 minutes: Loading the page, logging in, uploading 2 new Sinatras (1024 x 1024 images) via the image uploader, selecting a couple of different galleries, making 2 or three new galleries (which is a thing that’s just a list of object references to Sinatra things in my database), adding “fun facts” (a text field on the Sinatra thing) to the 2 new Sinatras, fixing a little bug in a popup and reloading the page, dragging and dropping my Sinatras around (which is entirely front-end so shouldn’t – and doesn’t seem to – have any WU cost)…

Well, that consumed 204 WUs. At the “Growth” plan pricing for WUs, that’s literally $0.11 – eleven cents! Yowza. (So, at the base Growth plan price, just 406 user-hours per month of such activity would blow through the base price and go into overage territory beyond that.)

These sorts of simple very-typical-Bubble interactions are similar to any activity in a Bubble app and seem pretty pricey, though there’s no precise way to compute how much the raw compute “should” cost for this, as we can with API calls and SSA executions.


“Sinatra pie” :point_up:

If anyone wants to go play around with that page, feel free (I’d like to see other consumption):

https://list-shifter-dev-test.bubbleapps.io/version-test/make_sinatras_resp?debug_mode=true

Aside: If you’re interested in this sort of feature, here’s my explanation of how it works using Floppy and part 2 here.

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But isn’t this how Bubble has always worked and why it’s always been so useful, because it can grow with you from an idea all the way through to a revenue-generating business? The new model changes nothing, only makes it worse for the early stages of that growth process by costing too much too soon.

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@andrewgassen Funny shield icon = enemy :clown_face:

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Not entirely, from my perspective, you had to purchase additional plans with features you didn’t want or need in order to unlock capacity. With this model, you just buy the workload units. I don’t have to upgrade to other plans, I can just let the app go.

Maybe the old model could’ve handled this by letting you buy an unlimited amount of additional capacity on any plan, but that wasn’t an option, and we didn’t have the option to let it consume as much as it needed then bill me later.

Edited to add: my opinions on this literally don’t matter lol, so I’m not gonna spend too much time defending. If bubble comes back with a workable adjustment, great! If not, I’ll worry about it then.

I had an entire roadmap of what I wanted to get done this year by quarter, and with the new version control I was able to pack in the giant projects separately, I was getting excited about the future of bubble.

But since the pricing announcement, I haven’t touched a single thing. Not one control, not one text input. Nothing. I have absolutely no motivation to do anything until there’s an announcement. The only thing I’ve managed to do is compare other no code solutions.

I really hope we hear something soon so I can make plans.

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You’re not alone.

Edit:
Well I did go to cancel my account, but found that if I did I lost access immediately rather than giving me the time I paid for…

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I’m just gonna say the uncomfortable thing out loud. WU pricing is going to fail. Full stop.

Even if they re-calibrate the WU formula (that they can CHANGE anytime without any notice FWIW) it’s just not going to be CLEAR enough for people about to build in the platform. If it’s a big “conversation” about what it MIGHT cost … sorry … that’s a monster fail.

People need simple pricing tiers - up to X users - storage up to X gig, etc. Those are pretty easy to figure out. But if say “up to X WU’s” then of course … what is a WU?

And how do I “estimate” BEFORE I build - how many WUs my app will use?

You can mess around with these levers all day long but you still have the same problem … IT IS NOT SIMPLE TO FORECAST. Bubble is huge, 2M users and TONS of developers in the community. Pretty great product with the ability to get better. One of the reasons people LOVE bubble so much is … they already know it and there is such a huge community to help. But it only takes a hit minute for tons of those folks to go and evangelize another platform. Bubble has the biggest lead and largest no-code developer user base - hands down, That’s why it’s so great!!

They need to raise prices - cool. Raise the prices. I seriously think there would be VERY little churn if they just 3X’d the current prices.

Anyway you slice it - if it’s not black and white what it will cost to build on the platform … it’s gonna really cost Bubble.

I’m sorry - but I can’t see how ANY “WU” strategy will succeed in the short or long term. Unless it is very easy to figure out what your app (that isn’t built yet) will cost when it scales

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