Also, should people be able to stay on legacy plans forever when new pricing are introduced?
Because most of the business models per app are directly based on the used tools’ pricing.
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@vnihoul77 Let me preface by saying this is an incredibly valid point and something everyone will need to take into account with the inevitable price changes however this is simply how ensuring you stay profitable works and unfortunately can’t be avoided.
If the servers Amazon uses became harder for Amazon to supply then AWS would raise prices, then you’d expect bubble to which would lead to application owners raising prices, which would lead to your users needing to raise their prices if you have a b2b app and this trickles down to the very end user. There is no avoiding this concept unless someone in the chain eats the cost or makes large investments to either optimize or rebuild.
I think the only problem with your pricing is you need a tier in between $29 and $129/mo. Other than that, I don’t have any issues with the “capacity” based pricing currently in place.
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Two types of apps that I hope Bubble considers when deciding on its new pricing model are:
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Passion projects — I’ve been running an app on Bubble since 2017 that is not even intended to make money. For most of the year, it has very little usage, but one month per year, there’s a decent usage spike (visitors, capacity, workflow runs, however you want to measure it). I hope that people like me can continue to pay Bubble <=$250-350 per year in perpetuity for passion projects like this. If such apps were to suddenly cost even $500-1000 per year to maintain (or $1500-2k+ per year if a Pro plan or higher was consistently required), I imagine that would cause many such passion projects to shut down or never get going in the first place, which would be a shame. Bubble is an amazing platform for building this kind of stuff, and there’s got to be a way to make the economics work as long as the apps are built reasonably well.
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"Not quite ready" businesses — Given how quickly one can spin up new concepts using Bubble, it is very easy to go from an idea to a smattering of live users with live data, but not be ready to commit oneself (in time or money) to that business when you have a full-time job and myriad other obligations. But because there is some live usage, the app may require, for example, a lot of rows of data (e.g., a list of 150k schools), but realistically those data are only ever lightly used. As with passion projects, I hope it will still be possible to pay Bubble $250-350 per year for apps like this that aren’t quite ready for prime time, versus feeling forced to either (a) abandon the idea or (b) scramble to accelerate the idea since you’re now paying $1500-2k per year for a Pro plan or especially $4k+ for a Production plan.
I’m really curious to know how many community members have an app currently on a Personal plan that falls into one of these two specific buckets (again, a passion project or “not quite ready” business). I have one of each. Please 
this post if you do, too.
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Happy to see the continued efforts to get this right but ever since the initial failed pricing announcement, we have found it extremely hard to work on our apps within Bubble. Our average CPU usage is usually 0-3% and our file storage is around 60MB despite having 500k records (it is all text).
I still don’t understand fully why Bubble keep saying that the pricing needs to change because it is confusing people. If that is the case, then educate, educate, educate those people regarding CPU usage and how that affects things. I’m not against paying a little bit more than currently but let’s be honest with the reasoning behind wanting to do that.
I am still super offended by the way the initial email was sent with regards to the ‘lower pricing’ when it was anything but that for the majority of users. Now we just feel in limbo… can we continue to have a large database or not? Will you start to screw with workflows or not? Based on the stats of our applications, we make them super efficient in terms of low CPU usage and small database size. Should we be penalized for making apps to a good practice that use less than 1/100th of the available capacity?
To me, it seems the focus is all wrong - instead of trying to extract maximum value out of existing users, why not actually focus on user acquisition and activating more of this wonderful community to get the word out and draw in more users? This would also lead to better education and better practices by app builders. For the moment though, our apps will just sit there not being developed because with all this uncertainty, I don’t know the best way to build and this is costing us weeks of progress which I can never forgive.
Final point would be, workarounds will always be found. Within minutes of the initial announcement, xano and backendless were being touted as a workaround so if this is just a way to increase revenue (be honest with us and stop the nonsense with current plans confusing people) then you have to think about that also as if a workaround exists to decrease costs, businesses will take it which then actually makes this whole exercise (making more money) futile as the money will go elsewhere. I just hope for a quick decision so we can determine the future for our apps and development on the Bubble platform as at the moment, feels like we’re on a enforced break whilst the uncertainty persists.
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I think more productized pricing approach with different tier plans for different use-cases could be a solution. Productized pricing plan can be based on different types of Bubble users depending on their business models (including but not limited to: Agency developers VS For-profit app owners VS Non-profit app owners, E-commerce VS Marketplace, Internal VS External …) of the apps/systems to be built on Bubble (taking into account the variability of user segmentation and categorization, perhaps also different levels/degree of DB capacity and/or tools usage), - just an idea taken from the app model that I am currently building on Bubble. I am a non-tech beginner in no-code (only Bubble though) since Dec 2021 - decided to build my app on Bubble - spent valuable amount of my time and commitment to make that decision by carefully weighing all my options (other no-code platforms and their learning curves), the future scalability of my business model on Bubble, long-term feasibility (support and certainty of Bubble), and the development capacity of Bubble itself (innovations and competitiveness). When decision was already made, I had to learn (or at least familiarize with) all the technical and design possibilities which I further defined and refined my app model based on those possibilities. At least that is my process of how I am developing my app (entirely depending on Bubble). Already spent quite an amount of $ to learn from different paid sources, attended courses, purchased a template, and bought maybe all manuals that exist – that is how I am committed to Bubble and still learning and developing as of today. A big fan of New Responsive Engine by the way. For the course of my business development based on Bubble, I am putting all my cards in hand on Bubble – it is a case at least for myself as a beginner, can be same for others too. By going through all these threads of expert inputs on given subject from the community, I am learning quite a lot to consider my further commitment to Bubble platform. Even for a non-tech beginner like myself, these changes in pricing seem like a lot to digest and reconsider my options - can’t imagine how serious the change can impact others who are already long-term users with already deployed and validated/proven systems on Bubble only if the pricing changes were to take place as announced. Very glad to hear that Bubble will reevaluate the plan. Hope for the best. – THOUGHTS from NON-TECH BEGINNER BUBBLER!
Thank you for engaging the community on pricing. As a front end designer, I think there is value in offering a lower price tier for apps that are mainly static and not overly complex. Bubble is a great design tool and I feel by starting your pricing at $29 you are missing out on people that would like to use bubble for simpler apps permanently or with the with the hopes of scaling and adding functionality later. $10 a month for a little bit of storage and capacity. Otherwise keep up the good work.
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Hello, i think is not a good option to put limits on DB or daily visitors, one of the things that i liked the most about bubble and is why i have many projects and bussinesses running here is that you pay for capacity. I think if we pay for DB things created it would not be suitable for me, i have a chat feature on one of my apps and many things more.
I think the principle of Bubble is that it lets you grow more and more and not just build an MVP, that’s why i decided to be here.
I love the capacity based model, i think is the best for everyone, you pay for what you need, maybe what you can do is to increase the cost of capacity or charge for the DB GB storage a reasonable price like AWS, but what i hate is that putting limits really doesnt let me be able to grow in bubble.
I Love Bubble and i hope that this will not make me return to traditional code, i am a python coder and i really put bubble on top of every language for most of my projects.
I am very concerned about this because i have invested so much time here.
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It’s “amazing” what a bad move can wreak havoc on a community.
About to hit the button to subscribe to the first paid plan to officially launch my app, developed over practically 1 year, this happens.
If for me, without a paid plan, it’s already desperate to “wake up” and find myself in such a situation, I imagine the hostage situation of people and companies that practically depend on Bubble, how “terrorist” the news was for them.
People are frantically looking for alternatives (even if much weaker than Bubble!) or even learning to use Bubble with a external database.
The level of amateurism of this “price study” of Bubble is frightening.
When I started in Bubble, the feeling was of playing and having fun with the platform and then start on the serious side of the thing, and now I have to go back to “play and have fun” on it again.
I respect the nice words of Josh and Emmanuel, but without anything concrete, I prefer to wait and see how Bubble will be and if it will still be worth launching my app on it.
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@josh et al. With all due respect, lamenting about the pricing announcement is not productive. We have two choices, help Bubble navigate this issue to ensure our long term profitability, or do damage control and eventually exit.
Please do not take offence to these ideas. In no way do I intend to insinuate that you and your colleges are not very smart people. Just thinking aloud.
First: Storage, CPU, backend “stuff” is commodity - treat it that way. Cost it out over the user base and average it. The small guy pays more on average and the big guy pays less, this is the economy of scale kicking in. To offset the discrepancy… read on.
Second: App complexity, create a tiered scale based on the number of workflow elements (steps) in an app. This means that the small guy with one simple app pays less, but the big guys with a complex app (or many apps) pay more. Cost this per month on average - and show the estimated next month PRODUCTION app cost in the user account info (no surprises). Development cost is not effected, since it is not generating cash flow for the builder.
Three: Pay for scale: Add a premium for concurrent user login for apps in Production. Apps with large user bases pay more, and apps with small user bases pay less. This allows apps to pay as they grow. (This is your primary margin - the gravy). Get the world locked into your solution BUT base it on your client’s end user count. This shifts your actual client base from the “developers” to everyone using a Bubble based app. This is a several order of magnitude change. And, it is a real partnership. Whenever your developers win, you win. IE: when they get big - you get bigger. Do the math… 1B concurrent app users at $0.50 per month… that is your target. Remember, you have already covered the cost for the technology infrastructure. If you can’t get 1B then, why?
Four: Developer Buy In: Annual subscription fees for developers. Price this to cover your development cost. Hence; the community is paying for new features and pay off your VCs, the developer community becomes the VCs – BUT you create the development plan by plebiscite. In other words, you treat your client community as pseudo shareholders. They drive what they need.
Five: Grow your client base; Offer discounts/rebates to clients who bring in paying clients. Make your user community your Marketing department. Offer deep discounts or even free services to Universities, Colleges, Schools. Hook the next gen of developers before they get tainted with other “coding” environments.
Six: With all due respect to the VCs of the world - figure out how to pay them back and get your company back. VCs must hit quarterly ROI targets, that is their business model. Rarely do they want to own a company, rather they want to exploit it and move on.
Best Regards,
John
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I propose that maybe you can charge more than AWS charges you for the capacity but you cant change this model pricing because it breaks all of our work and how we designed our apps. I know you have to charge a little bit more but this pricing that you proposed will not be suitable for no one, please keep the same pricing model, this is the success of bubble and of all the community.
GOLD! 
Very valuable info!
i think people naming bubble just an MVP builder are not trying hard enough…
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Única coisa que peço.
Sem limite de coisas
Cobrem por gb
O plano atual de você já é bom
Façam igual a amazom e deixem a opção bost caso o app precisar de mais gb ou processamento muda para o plano maior automática mente
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I rarely comment on the forum, but been following closely the events, really appreciate the transparency guys, this should be one of the factor setting Bubble apart from the rest. As far as I saw most people said paying a little more for the available plans wouldn’t be a problem, don’t image our clients would have that either. Personally I’d agree with that rather than checking the database limits somewhere every 5 minutes and trying to figure out how much extra I’d have to pay for that.
App complexity and user interaction can really be a huge factor with the pricing. I think definitely there should be a distinction between apps with different layers of complexity. A Blog shouldn’t be priced the same as a complex CRM.
Also I might be crucified for saying that, but not sure would it be worth not even having a ‘Free Plan’ but giving a fairly long Free Trial. Lots of companies loosing money on Free Plans as they can’t convert those Users to pay for the premium plan. 
Basically, everything has been already pointed out in the multiple threads since the storm began a few days ago. But I have a mixed variety of feelings with everything I have read, with a scary output. Of course, we have all different experiences, commitments with the platform, businesses, and mindsets, so is logical we have different opinions. This is pretty obvious, but I just wanted to mentioned it.
First of all, sorry for the huge text coming down.
I’m surprised how many have “totally restored” their trust with a couple of emails. Gladly (to me) some others have explained how the harm is done, and it is not easy to be restored.
Bubble is an amazing product. We know the tradeoff is that our development and work (Apps) is tied to Bubble. But with what happened, many of us have felt that our apps and destiny belongs entirely to Bubble, a company that of course can freely decide what they want, but that gives the feeling that the pricing policy is undefined for the future, and can seriously switch in a year or two. This could make the tradeoff not worthy.
We all that are here sticking to Bubble, is because we trust Bubble product/company in long term, or simply unawareness. For some of us until last week (for others until the change in 2019) we felt this worthy because we thought Bubble was the best option out there and that it would have a sustainable price policy in the future years.
The fear is, this is uncertain now.
My thoughts are:
- @emmanuel and Bubble team reaction has been very quick, and in the last statement, very honest and clear, as usual. Which we all know is rare in a no (longer) small company. Unfortunately, in the pricing announcement, it was not only a mistake in the prices, but the words disguising a huge increase in very exciting news with lower prices, are difficult to digest.
- The later response not revoking it and putting the eye on how to improve deleting data with further tools and courses, is difficult to understand coming from any executive or employee, not to mention coming from the very founder who better knows what Bubble and an app are.
- With the last communication by @josh, seems they are more aware of the damage this uncertainty may cause, but even so the uncertainty remains. The pricing policy will change, we don’t how, we don’t if it will be sustainable for all of us, so everything is on pause for at least a week.
- The people here saying that we all are happy to pay more, scares me. I guess it is depending on the level of the apps, I think the first tier is already expensive (300 USD), and probably there are levels and features for higher prices. But some people remind me to the Apple lovers who are happy that the new device costs a kidney while celebrating the incompatibility of the earphones, charge or even OS.
- Don’t take me wrong, the price changes in every company, but the policy of pricing is a different thing, it gives confidence and sustainability for clients in long term. Increasing a price from 300 to 315 USD is just an increase. Increasing it a 50% (2019) or changing dramatically how the prices are applied, is a different thing.
- I’m surprised that some people here are still proposing pricing based on workflows or creating/deleting records. I think that they have not understood the underlying problem of it, and I fear that Bubble took that path again. Paying by workflow or record operation changes completely the mindset of building an app, it is a psychological matter. Would make the users worry on how to make fewer workflows and records instead of how to make a better and more efficient app. Also, it is a very inaccurate way to measure, a record or workflow can be very light or heavy, so does not encourage efficiency but to stack everything together to count fewer records and workflows.
- The main value of Bubble is the app builder, for all database, interface and logic. The resources for data and bandwidth, as others pointed out, are not expensive nowadays, and also are a secondary value attached because Bubble is hosting the apps. This is why I think that makes more sense that the pricing are tier levels (as now), where its core cost is the tool that Bubble provides along with some server resources, and this can maybe be improved or more customized for each type of client with some add-ons (developer seats, storage/databse GB, improve server capacity, dedicated server/hosting, etc.).
- So the tiers can be increasing according to higher resources-demanding apps, these resources now are labeled as “capacity”. Ok, maybe it can be improved by reviewing and identifying the things included here, and improving the statistics and visualization of the usage to address the issues causing higher demand of resources, this will both make a fair price based on resources required and encourage the efficiency of the app. This is the Bubble part acting as a hosting, and the hosting already do it by server power, storage and bandwith. So this, along other addons like developer seats or extra dev-live versioning, may allow a more granular pricing without losing the basic ground points.
- For example, I think is missing one starter tier much cheaper than 300 USD, with only one developer seat and maybe lower limit of server capacity, because many apps stay in a production phase or being live still have very low usage. This will allow the creation of news apps
and retention of small ones.
Let’s be honest, we are here because we like Bubble, it empowers us and we love what they do and what we can do with them. But also because we have not found better alternative than Bubble. A couple of years ago with the last big change I tried Wappler (especially for the no vendor lock-in) among others, these days I gave it a second chance, still I cannot being even close to understanding it. There are other products with the vendor lock issue but more stable prices, that are worst products than Bubble, but as I said in the beginning, depending on how things go and price sustainibility, the trade-off might be not worthy.
Also, I want to mention. From what I have seen, some people maybe is not understanding the whole drama of this. Maybe some are here just for fun, or maybe is simply unawareness of the implications of this kind of things, and opinions are free.
But others here are running businesses and this became a very serious thing. In our case we are only a small business with an app running, but others here are freelance developers and agencies, people which this is their core business. And some of these are themselves developers that have help to create a huge environment of plugins and community support, which is big part of Bubble success.
Have a good day!
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Among the hundreds of comments in all the threads, what I’m not seeing (in general) is people wanting to move from usage based pricing.
Usage based pricing aligns with how we approach building apps. We build an app hoping it will find an audience and people will use it. To increase the likelihood that the app finds an audience, we need the freedom to build a great app.
In reality, most apps will fail to find an audience. So our cost outlay is contained when the app fails, and we can build new apps and try again. Some apps will find an audience (or have a prebuilt audience because they are created for internal processes), usage will go up, and then we need and can pay for higher capacity.
It’s an elegantly simple model that aligns interests between Bubble and users, and it’s worked for a long time.
I believe there are much more productive things Bubble should be spending time on, versus breaking something that’s already working well.
As the biggest and most successful companies know, put customer happiness at the center of the business and the rest will work out.
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@josh @emmanuel
My personal opinion is that any kind of major change will affect the predictability of Bubble in the eyes of the developers. And nobody wants to build an app or a business on an unpredictable platform.
I would vote for keeping the current pricing principle (based on capacity) and, if it’s needed, increase the prices by 5-20% max. No serious business in this world (tech or non-tech oriented) is changing the entire pricing scheme once every 1-2 years and also increases the prices 10-1000 times.
People don’t understand the current notion of capacity? And how it could affect the functionality of their apps? Explain it better*. In the end, if somebody doesn’t understand such a trivial thing, how could he/ she be able to build an app in bubble? Yes, Bubble is a no-code platform. But it isn’t a no-logic platform, too.
So, keep the current pricing which is based on capacity and increase it by a reasonable percent.
Maybe this is how Bubble could become predictable and safe for my business, as it used to be in the past.
*Idea: add a feature in the Development dashboard that would warn the user that a certain action (workflow, database operation etc) that he/she has just added (or intends to add) would increase the capacity consumption by x%. Also, if possible, add a calculation/ estimation of the capacity consumption for each app when it is used by 1 user, 2 users, 100 users etc (like those online calculators). This way, you would avoid having novice users complaining that their app doesn’t work well when there is a high demand on it.
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AGPL provides zero protection against this. AGPL just ensures that any investment made in the tech must be shared back. And these copycats will make exactly zero investments.
Only the Commons license would potentially help with this, but it would assume 100% legit players and no rogue players showing up, by rogue I mean people unreachable by US copyright laws that are willing to break the license.
Also, it would not help against the fragmentation issue due to self hosting.
Nice crystal ball you have there 
Makes no sense to just copy something and not make changes to differentiate yourself from your competition. Absolutely ZERO sense from a business perspective. What’s the added value if you do that?
Also Commons licenses are not meant for software.
1 Like