Why is Bubble not more popular?

Questions
41

Here’s the view that I’ve come to adopt. (Know that I remain very bullish on Bubble, having realized a good deal of the platforms capabilities).

Bubble operates in a middle ground. It’s too complicated for the person walking up off the street to be successful within a day. Conversely, for the average developer who has 3+ years experience, they’re already settled in with their preferred stack (and only seek tools that more or less compliment that).

Bubble caters to a new breed of developer - those that have technical inclination but do not have a formal technical background (ie. undergrad degree and upwards). The proliferation of educational products (my own included) are helping to close that middle gap. As education of the platform becomes stronger, so to will (successful) adoption.

We’ve seen so many barriers to development fall over the past two decades - services like SendGrid, Amazon, Twilio, etc. that make development demonstrably easier. Bubble’s role in this is as a unifying layer that makes unifying these disparate PaaS offerings ridiculously simple alongside a truly versatile builder.

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46

I don’t like to argue in public forums but you can’t even start to imagine how wrong those assumptions are.

Google doesn’t mean infinity. It’s a typo of googol -> One followed by 100 zeros.

Why one is struggling and the other one is not doesn’t have absolutely anything to do with their names.

47

Arguably this thread (and this entire forum) is Bubble’s competitive advantage right now.

Even for the technically minded there is a lot to get your head around with Bubble. Same goes for the other genuine no/low-code platforms - DropSource, Thunkable, CreoLabs etc.

But if you go look at their communities there is nothing like the dialogue / ad-hoc support that you can find on Bubble. There’s great help when getting started here, and when you’re a pro-Bubbler there’s an army of experts to get you past your dead-ends. I haven’t seen that elsewhere - it’s pretty incredible. And the one thing that capital struggles to buy.

Growing the core user / expert base in-line with the overall platform would be my number one consideration for long-term survival.

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48

i totally agree BUT that still in my opinion falls under UX in some small regards. I good app should have both willing customers and good experience and good design… that is a triple win and all is very achievable on bubble… but even if it does not look pretty it still should make sense AND fulfill a need like you said. Crap app is subjective, but that is my way of saying that you need to learn bubble to some degree before making the app you desire to, and having the fundamental concepts of the above mentioned is helpful. :slight_smile:

If your customer does not care how it looks… cool… but i think really most people do either consciously or subconsciously. Most people go with the better looking of two apps when the features and pricing are the same. Why fight the uphill battle! Do both and do it well!

49

After reading my own comment i realize that it may of come across like i was saying: if you cant code you will have a crap app. You can make amazing apps with ZERO code on bubble. But the programming of bubble is very similar to code in how it works in function. Its just done without writing the code, so i just mean the person needs to learn the applied concepts, not the coding itself.

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50

What needs to continue emerge for Bubble is the path towards expertise. There’s some knowledge from the old world (I would argue data design, but I’m a grizzled SQL type, but other things too) that helps an awful lot, but you better know your REST and responsive websites etc. Right now you can bungle something up for performance and then come to the forums and learn how you should have done it, how to rewire everything – but it would be better if you were steered a little better in the right direction from the outset. If this would be done seamlessly, without Clippy tapping on the glass so to speak, I think there would be much less wheel spinning and fewer “haalp haalp!” posts on the forum (which is fine, I get it, nobody is born with this knowledge).

51

Hey all,

I think it’s quite simple. Their growth is respectable. They’ve created a new kind of approach. As they continue to improve the product, their base grows. However, their number one problem is that they have not polished their onboarding/documentation for their target market.

The creators of this progam are brilliant. They understand all of the concepts that are required for people to create applications. That is part of the problem with Bubble. Creating an app ain’t just aboot (I’m Canadian) having an idea. The creators say building apps with this this is simple. That is simply not true for an average person. I have been working intensively with Bubble for… perhaps over 3 years now. In fact, 6 months ago, I quit my job, moved to another country, and hunkered down for full time Bubblin. This is all I do, all day long, 16+ hours a day. I can tell you, it took time to build fluency with the concepts to allow me to become an insightful Bubbler. This framework gives people tools, but it frankly ignores the mental lifting required to achieve flight (conceptual fluency with database concepts and algorithmic complexity).

Anyone with fluency in accounting, engineering, computer science, etc, knows that there are a tonne of conceptual framewerx (ohh fancy spelling for 3:30am!) that they’ve internalized over years.

Sure Emmanuel and the Bubble crew want regular joes to build apps. They have given this beautiful, constantly evolving, tool to the masses… YET most Joe/Jane public lack the fluency with creating logical flows and thinking through their concept in minute detail.

The onboarding and documentation is weak, therefore, they lose myriad new users to frustration. Most non-technical folks wouldn’t put in the time to understand what a lovely tool this is.

In time, Emmanuel will hire someone to polish their documentation and create an improved onboarding program that will bring folks up to speed… as I have already discussed with him years ago… ahem. :wink:

Anywho, Bubble ain’t perfect. Yet, it is totally amazing and constantly growing.

Onward and Upward (as bubbles tend to do)

Happy Bubblin!

Much Love,

Ashley

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52

Tactically speaking, I think Bubble has done and continues to do many, many things right. Strategically … I’m less sure, other than the obvious prescience of seeing/spawning the no/low-code movement. I think they have some very tough strategic calls yet to make.

I thought that the marketing survey they issued to users awhile back was illuminating in that it laid out how Bubble potentially sees itself and how they believe its users/prospective users see Bubble. While it does seem that Bubble has made some (minor) positioning changes following that research, it’s hard to say from the outside if/how Bubble’s product strategy (i.e., its chosen path toward its long-term vision) has changed, or even really what it was or is.

That in mind, as it relates to the original question, as long as there is fear/uncertainty/doubt about what Bubble is or will ultimately become, then one or more segments of users will hesitate to (or simply not) adopt it. Personally, as someone who has led products built on custom stacks, AWS, and GCP, my biggest hesitation before deciding to build a product – let alone an entire business – on Bubble (and I’m now on my third such product/business decision), is this: as powerful as Bubble is for getting a product/business off the ground fast and effectively, I enter into my decision knowing 1) that I will not be able to hire a “traditional" development team (Java, Javascript, Python, whatever) after 3-12 months of working on a Bubble app myself, because they flat-out won’t know what to do with it, and 2) there is no way to transfer what was built on Bubble to another platform. Which means that my post-launch choices are not great: I either continue to build on Bubble and limit myself/my company to hiring “Bubble developers” (which is not the same as “Bubble-knowledgeable software engineers”), or I hire that traditional team anyway (which may itself be more difficult after explaining what the initial product is built on) and commit to rebuilding everything I’ve already built on Bubble on another platform of the new team’s choice.

To summarize, I don’t think it’s even the Bubble platform itself that prevents more mass adoption and strategic usage by companies; it’s the lack of (or at best nascent) ecosystem around it. Bubble is co-creating a new category of software, and is doing well with its own platform, but to ultimately be successful it needs to also put in a near equal amount of effort and resources toward building out an ecosystem to support it. It is on this front that I fear Bubble is, at least currently, falling short – and where the question of taking VC money comes more squarely into play.

Related/recommended reading: Play Bigger: How Pirates, Dreamers, and Innovators Create and Dominate Markets

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53

Sing it brothah!

I totally agree. Very well said edd!

Ashley

54

We are that ecosystem, for now. If the platform grows the more experienced developers and agencies will need to help bootstrap the new entrants, virtuous circle, etc. It would be nice to have an alliance of some kind with one of the superbig players, an overlapping ecosystem so to speak.

55

Preach!
Reaching a point in my own Bubble built startup where I might want to hire - but the pool for a quality and consistent Bubble skilled employee is limited. I think hiring people already skilled at Bubble is often a poor decision if you want them with your project long term. Most people find Bubble because they have their own ideas to build, and thus even if they work for you, it will only be short term until they find their own thing. Unfortunately there are very few people that learn Bubble with the intention of being an employee.

Two ideas I’ve had to overcome this:

  1. Internship with 2-3 current students or recent grads to teach them Bubble, then hire one (Think AirDev uses this method)
  2. Build on a traditional stack
    Lots of pros and cons on both sides, so curious how other growing apps have dealt with this - if anyone out there is in a similar situation and has ideas, shoot me a message :grinning:
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56

This has been a fascinating and enlightening discussion. As a non-programmer, it has taken me quite a lot of time to become decent in Bubble. Mostly trial and error, the forum, and direct help from @romanmg and others. Not from the bubble tutorials or documentation.

As @ashley.benson.tait said yesterday, despite the marketing hype, this is not simple for the average (non-programmer) person. Understanding the data relationships is critical, else there are going to be performance issues (i have been there). And this is not something that is intuitive. It must be learned over time.

It would be helpful if Bubble could analyze your data relationships to make suggestions on how it could be done more efficiently. Not sure if this is even possible, but this appears to be a recurring problem for non-programmers like me.

Perhaps it would be better to pivot/rebrand Bubble as a rapid-development platform for programmers/designers (not the average person).

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58

So you honestly believe that “Apple” is a great name? That’s worst than “Bubble” in my humble opinion :rofl:

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59

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2812071
https://blog.kareldonk.com/apple-the-occult-secrets-behind-the-brand/ ,
https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-the-first-Apple-computer-sold-was-for-666-66

60

I LOVE the name Apple.

61

Bubble will work as a verb, and if they achieve their a sizable shift away from pure code to working in their “bubble?”, then their name will work perfectly to describe the “other” way of creating customized applications.

Also, as a startup person who doesn’t believe in fast money or the empty marketing promises that often come with it, I applaud the Bubble team for their slow cook approach. What they’ve built is very complex and was not possible to completely define from the start. So a slow and long build is the ONLY way to create something like this platform. And, actually achieving revenue is way more important to the future of a business that is looking to build real tools for real customers, and not just build a “unicorn exit” in a marketing smoke and mirrors mess. Bubble is a real solution that I enjoy working in.

So, growing a user base around a product that is in development and may not be ready for the big time never ends well. It looks like Bubble has had the right number of customers at the right stage of their growth. And now it looks almost ready to go huge. WELL DONE!

62

Robert, totally agree. They need to do a better job in teaching the different “scaffolds” that can be used to build fast websites. Traditional programmer logic. It is very easy to build a quick website, but unless you know some hard to come by details on the best way to structure your build, then you will be stuck with a slow site that can not grow users. It’s their beauty and their curse.

@romanmg is awesome!

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63

Hi Ashley,

As a relative newcomer to Bubble (2 months-ish) I’d be interested to know what you think about Bubble’s onboarding/documentation for regular Joe’s like me, 2-years on from your original comment.

I have found learning Bubble to be a steep yet enjoyable learning curve, with lots of options to find help when needed. My approach so far has been: learn a little, build a little, get stuck, learn a little, build a little, get stuck (probably ad infinitum…?)

I’m reaching a point now where the basic workflow/database processes are relatively simple for me, but things like APIs are the next challenge to wrap my head around - I’m kind of at one of those “you don’t know what you don’t know” moments, as depicted by the “Dunning-Kruger effect”. I think I’m riding the early confidence wave!

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Best,
Tom

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64

Looks like the number has 4X’d over the past two years. :slight_smile:

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