Sometimes mainstream payment providers like Stripe or Braintree will characterize businesses as too “high risk” for them and their bank partners fearful for lack of precedent or potential for high chargebacks, they say.
I’m currently in a spat with Stripe over their assessment that my business is high risk. I’ve since found this is more common in tech than I knew. I feel it’s a bit unfair that they broad brush (which they admit), but that’s another story. I don’t think they are changing their mind so I’m starting to look at other options. The problem is there are limited to no “high risk” payments plugins on bubble.
Stripe recommended this service. Has anyone had any experience with them?
Is anyone in the same boat as me?
I’m on a shoe string budget, but I am willing to go in with some people to sponsor the development of a plugin of this nature, provided its costs are reasonable.
I would be interested in chipping in on this. Haven’t heard of that website before, wonder what makes stripe recommend them. I’m skeptical on websites that don’t post their prices and API documentation publicly.
Last time I searched, the most developer friendly solution i found was: securionpay.com
I was just reading about this small biz that had 1000s of stolen cards run through it that put it out of biz and the owners on the hook…
But just saw stripe has this new radar service that protects against chargebacks for a “small” extra fee: https://stripe.com/radar/chargeback-protection of course since it’s new they can also pull the service in the future if it’s not profitable.
Honestly, the best Third Party Payment Processor (TPP) for you to choose is highly dependent on the industry that you are choosing to operate in, as well as the geography. Just search Quora for the top vendors relevant to your industry…they should all have APIs that you can utilize using Bubble’s API Connector. (Most of the paid plugins for Stripe, etc. are simple API calls that can be figured out and inserted into the API Connector after reading the API’s documentation and testing the calls via Postman - something that most entry-level freelancers should be able to help with if you prefer to sponsor the process.)
For example, the cannabis industry is exploding in the US, but Stripe/PayPal will never touch it and they probably have far too much to lose if they ever decided to do so. Even Series D funded ‘technology’/logistics companies that are operating in that industry will use off-brand, high-risk payment vendors. These services are not meant for shoestring budgets, and it will cost you because the TPPs will take care of the Know Your Customer (KYC) process so that they can continue operating with the bank that they themselves are building on top of and are likely under close supervision by. That, or the payment vendor may be switching from one bank to another behind the scenes inconspicuously. [Bank > TPP > your service] The good TPPs may do KYC on your customers, but at minimum they will do KYC on you - and if you’re not a revenue generating company yet, it may be difficult to negotiate solid terms in the beginning. KYC is for your benefit and protection, and it is generally a good idea to have your payment vendor handle some of that KYC for you in order to help mitigate your personal/professional liability. Otherwise, you will be solely responsible for the entire KYC process along with the legal and financial implications if anything goes awry.
There are a number of articles online discussing how many of the (now largest) high-risk ‘logistics’ companies used to signup with erroneous accounts (for example, BigHemp Inc would sign up for Stripe as GREENTEA.COM and process ‘logistics services’ via greentea.com instead of billing directly for the actual product that the end user was purchasing on BigHemp Inc’s online marketplace). If the TPP ever caught on and decided to suspend the account, BigHemp Inc (or one of their many ‘payment vendors’) would signup again using another company/llc/etc…rinse and repeat. This is definitely not the way to go, as I’m sure that your business wants to remain above board and compliant without paying for expensive legal services. I’m guessing that these logistics startups used creativity, their VC network, and a handful of big box law firms to string their payment strategy together. If you ask any of the funded blockchain startups, I bet dollars to donuts that they have retainers with at least one of the major law firms (Perkins, DLA, etc.) for the inevitable regulatory inquiries and investigations.
The more capital you have to spend on payment vendors upfront, the less headache you’ll have with facilitating high-risk payments. It might be a good idea to talk to someone you trust in FinTech who can give you more sound advise.
I actually did hear of securionpay.com via some research I did online and saw some of their people on quora answering questions. It actually looks pretty good.
I’m not sure why Stripe recommends paymentcloud. It’s actually the only processor ever referred to me by them, and this was on two different occasions more than a year apart, so clearly they are on their short list. I have a hunch it is because they get a referral fee because the link they provide had a “/stripe” URL ending. I immediately went through PC’s normal index page cause I didn’t want Stripe to get the referral fee for putting me through all this, lol.
I also don’t love that paymentcloud doesn’t share as much about their tech integration. I filled out an input form for one of their reps to get in touch with me so we can discuss if their product can help me and I had a sales guy leave me a voicemail within a couple hours, and then a stock email blast with a link to an application. I replied back to the email from him with my needs last week to see if they can help, and have not heard anything back from them and just the same stock e-blast.
It can vary, but I’ve seen it floated around $20 USD, plus or minus. It’s definitely something to keep an eye on, but diligence will need to be given to ensure that the payments processors have great chargeback protection too.
I think this could be more problematic in a marketplace of sellers, than in a more direct SaaS.
I wonder if you could insure against chargebacks. I would have to do more research.
@supernaturally thanks for the thorough reply, interesting stuff indeed! We definitely would like to stay on the straight with all this, as inconvenient as it is in the short term.
From what I’ve seen merchants set aside funds to make sure they can cover future chargebacks. One stat I saw said it was small though about <1% of merchants are impacted. I’d agree with @supernaturally eventhough you can build it, definitely find someone who knows this better than us and have them help you figure it out so that it doesn’t result in unforeseen costs down the road…
I also had a business characterized as high risk merchant. I think the characterization was stupid because there is no history to judge and on the top of that I said I am willing to deposit money for more than 30 days to guard against charge backs. They didn’t seem to be flixable. If you are from Eastern Europe or Middle East or India this sort of thing apparently come more than you would expect. Espically if you are trying to setup atlas. I was not able to proceed as a result development was stagnant.
I reached out to SecurionPay and they unfortunately only service EU. I’m in the US. Here is their message back to me. Too bad for me because they look like a viable option.
Hi ,
thank you for reaching out to SecurionPay. I noticed that you registered from outside of the EU.
I am afraid that due to limitations of our acquiring banks we are not able to work with non-EU registered businesses.
In this situation, we can do nothing but miss the opportunity to cooperate with your company and would like to wish you good luck in finding a reliable partner for payments processing.
I proposed paying them higher percentages to accommodate this supposed risk, also that I would guarantee that I would cover all chargebacks, and to give me a 6-month trial to prove and set a precedent for my and other businesses that my model is in fact not high risk at all.
I escalated it to the point I got a supervisor and they said basically they cannot do anything. I honestly did not feel heard out at all. It seems like their sales people are instructed to slam the door on anything that remotely looks different than very typical business types that conventional banks would underwrite.
That leaves a lot of innovative and new business types on the cutting room floor. Surprising since I thought Stripe was supposed to be progressive.
@marktuff I guess that’s the truth about a lot of these payment services. They’re either EU only or US only. Some are country specific, too.
I’m sure you can find some payment processors accepting US. If you are just accepting payments without needing custom sellers and such, then you don’t need a super advanced API. That might broaden the search for you. I guess just be careful of hidden fees, some processors are notorious for that.
I was also surprised that Stripe has a rather lengthy list of restricted business types - but it makes sense after all they’ve processed lots of transactions so know where the risk lies…
I especially like they banned the pay to take down your mugshot type business
I guess the other option would be to accept bitcoin or other crypto as payment and bypass the credit card routes. Coinbase offer this service https://commerce.coinbase.com/
I thought of crypto, but I do not find it mainstream / accessible enough, and my market is going to be SMB’s, who likely aren’t too savvy in it.
I’m starting to more seriously consider launching a free version to start, and figuring out the payment processing as I go. The thing is it might take some time to find the right partner and build the plugin, and I’d hate to delay launching and collecting valuable info in the meantime.
My personal view is one of the “tests” of a new product is the pricing as well as the problem it solves. If they only like it at “free” and won’t pay - I think it’s better to test that early on and find out as soon as possible.
I would just put the easiest payment method in to see how “urgent” the problem is. If it’s very important they will find a way to use it. If not then you’ve learned more than you know now.
I definitely agree with that in most cases, and that is the ideal situation, but my case is a little unique where I am fairly confident they would stick around.
I’ll have to think a little more on this to see the best initial approach as I reach out to payment providers.
I got all my legal ducks in a row, EIN numbers, bank account, etc., and was approved for a merchant account with Braintree.
Bubble has a Braintree plugin, but calling it bare bones might be giving it too much credit. So I might still be in the market for a plugin developer to help out here since I’m a little strapped for time.
Anyone here interested in Braintree, and creating a more comprehensive plugin for it?
