witha few hours distance to this, im actually a bit nervous
bubble shouldnât follow webflow pricing strategy! Building applications that relay on data and transactions is different from building a CMS. Applications are data intensive and database records shouldnât be part of the pricing equation.
We hear you too that your are facing a cost issue and you are trying to optimize your profit as an VC funded startup.
But maybe you are scaling in the wrong direction. Just ask this question.
Since the community isnât involved with behind the scenes engineering challenges. I have a few suggestions based on my external observation.
1- Offer a native integration with Amazon RDS services. This way you are moving the database cost to the client and they can up scan or down scale based on their needs
2- Offer bubble as a distributed system. Similar to Wordpress AWS instance. You still can make money with that model.
3- Educate people about database design and optimization. That may help beginners consume less capacity of your resources.
4- Develop a metrics that shows the expensive searches and asks the user to optimize them.
As many of your users, I have built my business on bubble and around bubble services, and always advocated for using bubble to my clients.
Final thought, bubble shouldnât charge per database records we are building businesses and software not just CMS.
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I am VERY new to Bubble (started just last November maybe?) and at first I was surprised by the reaction the changes brought out. But reading more of the responses I quickly understood why.
Oddly enough, this reminds me of why I started looking at Bubble in the first place. I was creating a set of apps in Zoho Creator and was close to complete. But then they completely changed the terms of service. Because of this, a LOT of developers were blindsided and really upset at Zoho.
But I think Bubble is handling it a lot better.
so true
I really hope your âthink backâ attitude is real. It seems your own customer solutions database was adjusted to your new rows limit and you have deleted the ones with the most things in it while making it comply with the new rules - that is the only way I can imagine you have missed the massive amount of customers complaining here that the will need the upgrade to keep running. Or else you are interested only in the hobbyists as customers and not on anyone with a real professional app or solution to implement.
Maybe, just maybe, the damage to your image and lack of confidence in your business model as something we can rely on is irreversible. I am looking at other options, for sure.
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Great feedback
Many of us should see this as a signal to start preparing to learn Xano or other alternatives in preparation of bubble giving our clients the finger. My relationship with my client is more important than bubble imagined. Itâs sad that itâs coming to this
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Or just use a open data platform (strapi, directus, âŚ) and svelte/vue as frontend, they are super simple to learn.
I will never give trust to a company that have shown that attitude, and now i donât want to be vendor lock-in anymore.
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Just go for a open data, no vendor lockin platform.
Strapi, Directus, nocodb, ⌠+ some front end builder, even bubble or a easy to use JS framework, but keep your data safe.
@emmanuel imo it is very okay to pay for db-size. it is predictable and managable (eg. limitation of fileuploads etc). but limiting the # of things will destruct the core community (user developed an architecture for years under current circumstances), breaks with a major value, kills innovation (eg tracking) and will lead to bad database-layouts.
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As I watched all this unfold yesterday and read Bubbleâs official responses, the feeling I was left with was that Bubble didnât feel its users were very intelligent and felt it could doublespeak its way through this, with statements likeâŚ
We also canât count the number of times we received emails (or saw posts on this forum) from potential users asking âWhich plan is right for me?â That in and of itself made us realize that our pricing approach wasnât right.
[My reaction: this implies that confusion over capacity was a big problem (it wasnât) and that users were asking to move to being charged per database item (they werenât). Itâs clear this change was about how to increase prices.]
We came up with these numbers [unique visitor and database limits] by looking at existing usage data and took a generous approach that would allow most users to avoid hitting overages at their current volumes.
[Judging by the reaction on the forum, not sure how this can be true. âGenerousâ is not the case â these limits are much lower vs. the subset of platforms that price this way.]
After talking to many users (old and new)
[Not quite sure what to say here. All the well-known power users have said they were taken by surprise.]
We are confident that for the vast majority of applications, this change is beneficial
[At a loss for words here.]
Bubble was initially built without a database things limit, which likely contributed to how users have constructed their current databases.
[Users design databases based on best practices, features, performance and scalability, which often calls for the industry-norm practice of data normalization. The implication that we should now warp database setups to fit into an artificially small constraint is absurd.]
for applications that have been running on Bubble for a long time, and built their apps without thinking about the number of database things, this leads to extreme situations, which makes these limits feel low
[This implies itâs the customerâs fault. They limits donât âfeelâ low, they âareâ low, and are totally out of sync with the direction apps are going in. Large databases arenât âextremeâ, they are increasingly the norm.]
The last thing we want to do is to make Bubble unaffordable for people whoâve trusted us as their platform.
[That was the first thing the pricing change did.]
We donât want to discourage or disincentive people using the database
[Thatâs precisely what this change does.]
Weâre a community-driven company, which is why we discuss these things openly on the forum.
[This change was not driven by the community. Bubble did not discuss this change on the forum. It announced it as a done deal.]
Many of our users are entrepreneurs, and as founders ourselves, we get how important predictability in your cost model is, and how scary it is for a key piece of your business to change out from under you.
[Then why did they do what they did?]
The one thing we didnât hear yesterday was the two simple words: âWeâre sorryâ. The lack of those words speaks the loudest.
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Iâm going to give the benefit of doubt and say theyâre crafting an apology letter now but Iâm not holding my breath.
I really hope Bubble learns from this and corrects course.
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Thank you for putting this pricing change on hold; however, I now know that a pricing change is imminent and am very afraid as to what that will entail. Iâve been through every single pricing change that Bubble has implemented and continued to use the platform because I have spent a great deal of time and energy learning how to use Bubble. I think that Bubble is on the verge of greatness and really is the driving force behind the no-code movement; however, I am a bit shaken by the announcement yesterday - more so than any pricing change announcement in the past because I now see that the rug can be completely pulled out from under me and the rules completely changed, which would render years of work and time investing in the platform a complete waste of time. I think this announcement also made me raise an eyebrow to how many people depend on Bubble for their livelihood and it scares me that one platform and one business could take that away from everyone in a second. It also made me realize that there is no sound competitor at the moment for Bubble, but I have a feeling that after this pricing announcement that there is a platform that is being developed that will be similar to features of Bubble - I think at this point for the sake of no-code there HAS to be another option presented so as to avoid one company have the competitive edge and requiring the majority of the no-code community depending on one solution. This is a risk, at the moment, to the entire no-code community. I know there are other options, but Bubble seems to be the most advanced and best option, overall.
I know that everyone has presented their opinions on pricing, but as I have read the options, I think the couple of things that make the most sense to me - especially if Bubble wants to remain relevant for years to come. I think there needs to be a pricing model made up of two options. Option one would be for a managed Bubble experience - similar to what is available now with pricing that reflects actual hosting costs from AWS to host a site. That model should price things similarly to AWS pricing with an obvious markup for Bubble. A user should be able to purchase the capacity, storage, resources that they need to operate their app effectively. Option two would be for a self-managed option where Bubble could be used for the development and then a user could deploy the app to AWS on their own. This would prevent all apps from being permanently locked in by Bubble, but Bubble could continue to charge a monthly fee to use the Bubble editor to make edits to the live app. Obviously, I would expect this pricing to be less because I am not asking Bubble to manage the hosting - only provide me with the tool to modify and expand the current application running in AWS. For someone like me, I would love to host my app on my own in AWS and not be locked in; however, I would continue to pay a monthly fee like I am now to continue to manage and expand my application.
I second the request from the community, as well, to develop an advisory board to provide community guidance and input to the Bubble team, so that decisions are not made in a vacuum without community input. These type of constant pricing announcements and backtracking really makes Bubble as a company look unstable and unreliable and will eventually lead to its overall demise.
So, just wanted to add my two cents of regarding pricing strategy. I know that being one of the first in the market that Bubble is a hard tool to price effectively, but it obvious that this announcement really rattled the entire community and made people, like myself, realize that there might be too much reliance on the Bubble platform, which makes me nervous for the future of Bubble. I absolutely love Bubble and will continue to use and learn the platform, but I think at the moment, I wonât be looking to deploy any more apps to live or move any of those apps from a free plan until I find out more about the next steps with pricing. I donât think I am saying anything that hasnât already been said, but I needed to provide some additional confirmation to the Bubble team so that they get multiple perspectives from the community.
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@Levi you forgot to factor in âoverageâ fees which are 2.5x more expensive per thing (db item).
This image is from emmanuelâs original post.
The Production plan costs .0016/ item only till the DB limit. After the limit the per item costs increase by 150%.
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Will you trust Bubble, continue to spend time and money, and be itâs proponent on Social media after a âWe are sorryâ email?
well said
Well said Ed. I got the exact same feeling. If Bubble publishes the revised pricing options in the near future and sticks with the limit on rows, you know that you were right and it is time to jump ship.
Big Problems require Big Solutions:
Problem 1 - This announcement was massively under researched, unvetted, and poorly positioned.
Solution 1 - Implement an accountability system where decisions like these are ran through multiple filters. Itâs hard to imagine that no one at Bubble voiced any concerns about this decision⌠unless itâs a culture problem where employees are scared to speak out. These decisions should be ran through staff first⌠and then a core user base. You have a huge community of brilliant minds that are telling you weâll pay more. That is a unique and valuable asset for a company⌠something many companies donât have. Additionally, the fact that the announcement came with the statement âAt a similar or lower price pointâ in the original statement was an outright lie. Lipstick on a pig to say the least.
Problem 2 - Pricing change
Solution 2 - Everyone agrees that you can charge more for this awesome platform (albeit the whiny folks that think free isnât cheap enough, but ignore them.) Youâve built something incredible⌠and received valuable investment. You should absolutely scale!!! But not overnight and not with such a one dimensional model. You guys arenât bad at math⌠find an algorithm that includes CPU usage, user count, workflows, APIâs, traffic, ect. Tap into some of your brilliant users!! I personally wouldnât mind a model thatâs based on users because that is pretty correlated to revenue for a majority of apps⌠but lots of creative solutions have been proposed.
Problem 3 - Decision making at Bubble.
Solution 3 - I think many people are scratching their heads at how this decision was made, and others seem to have a clear understanding of who/what is motivating decisions now. If this was investor influenced⌠then let the community buy them out or tell them to take a silent partner role because they almost just drowned their investment. Bubbles trajectory was and still can be towards being the #1 all in one no code solution⌠the freaking GOOGLE of no code. Why would you take a Turkey out of the oven and try to shove it in the microwave? Bad fit and bad taste. (Excuse the analogy.!) I think the board, founders, and investors all need to have a meeting about how decisions are made and what made Bubble worth $100m investment in the first place. This action was a clear indication of straying from the path.
Problem 4 - Repairing Trust
Solution 4 - It was hard to watch Bubble almost hang itself yesterday by deteriorating years of innovation, excellence, and user trust. Equally hard to eagerly await how this will all unfold. I would suggest tackling all of the issues above⌠and then providing some channels/avenues where you can A) Communicate with a core group of power users early for feedback and early notifications of strategy/decisions, B) Craft a carefully curated video response to all users about how these things transpired⌠and how you are going to work toward and commit towards keeping the original mission/vision of Bubble alive⌠and what safe guards are in place to prevent these snap decisions from being made âin a bubbleâ again. Perhaps even hire a âUser Advocateâ position whoâs sole job is to plead the case of the users.
Conclusion - Damage has been done. But the quick response and pause is very admirable and indicative of true leadership/wisdom. Admit the fault. Push back against the quick profit mongers⌠aim higher⌠towards world changing technology⌠itâs not lofty to say itâs within your grasp⌠and the investors will have more than they bargained for. Tap into your core user group⌠rebuild trust with them⌠and they will give confidence to the rest of us. Donât be too hard on yourself⌠errors like these are painful but they provide that rare human event where everyone watching gets to see something incredibly powerful and humbling happen⌠PEOPLE UNITED TOWARDS A COMMON GOAL!
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Itâs the first, small step in what will be a difficult process to restore user trust, but it least would indicate that Bubble realizes what itâs done and that itâs created a full-blown crisis that needs to be taken very seriously.
This type of âbreakingâ change is the #1 risk to no-code and its Achilles heel. Bubble just communicated to its userbase (and the nocode industry generally), that that risk is very real and that no user can trust a nocode platform for anything other than a short-term solution.
What we need here is either a strong leader who is willing to fight to the end to protect users, or a groundbreaking change in the business setup that accomplishes the same. Trust is the foundation of a nocode platform, and itâs been severely damaged here.
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With all due respect @emmanuel whoever is giving you advice on revenue and growth generation needs to be âreviewedâ. I have been in business for 40 years, in a past life I was the Strategic IT Architect for a global Fortune 500 before retiring. I once attended a press conference in Japan to witness Mr. Toyotaâs interview. He was asked a question regarding his companyâs annual market share growth compared to the big 5 in the USA. Toyota had seen a 2.1% market share growth and GM had seen +17%. When asked by the journalist how he could justify such a low number, he just chuckled. His answer was brilliant⌠âWhat is 2% over 50 years?â he responded through the interpreter.
The point is: Bubble has the opportunity to become âtheâ development tool for the web. Not just âanotherâ tool. Consider what your company would be worth if it had 10% of the development activity world-wide. What about 100%? Rather than focusing on pricing to generate more revenue, focus on growth and quality. Your company can become âtheâ provider, all you have to do is create an environment where your clients market your service for you. Donât be mistaken â any software can be duplicated (not stolen⌠improved), even yours. Make your product the must-have, go to product for developers, corps, ECT⌠yes, you need to set your margins to attain a certain level of return, but annual revenue growth through pricing changes is not sustainable growth. What is sustainable is adding satisfied clients. Toyota has over a 60% loyalty rate according to J.D. Powers. No Toyota has not achieved 100% market share however, they are the worldâs largest car brand at 8.5% of the market with a reported 2021 revenue of $275 billion. Seems to me; they got it right.
My sincerest best wishes as you navigate this turbulence.
John
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