Bubble.io and Xano - A Quick Share of My Experience

Hello Bubblers,

I started with Bubble.io because they promised smooth scaling.

My app wasn’t just a simple recipe-book app. It required robust backend workflows and databases. It quickly became clear that, while Bubble is perfect for simpler apps, it was struggling to handle the heavy workloads.

So, I turned to Xano to handle my backend. Compared to Bubble, Xano seems to handle backend workflows and databases much better so far. The switch was tough, but I’m better off now.

What’s amazing is how well Bubble and Xano work together. Bubble acts as the frontend, and whenever I need to do any backend related work, I call a Xano API and it takes over from there. This setup also keeps things organized. I design functionalities (like Sign Up, Sign In, Create Product, Call a 3rd Party API) in Xano, and then in Bubble, I design the user interface and create workflows (like when the Sign In button is clicked, it calls myapi.xano.io/singIn API).

Just saying, don’t kid yourself in the building process thinking that your backend will survive real users with real workloads in the real world.
Whenever you build a new workflow/process, do a stress test as if 50 customers are using it right now.

Happy (no)coding, everyone!

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Thanks much for sharing this @jacobglanz9

A few questions that I have had in mind and wanted to try out, but maybe you can share from your experience:

  1. How does the “auto update of data on a page” work? Does it work automatically when Xano is the backend or you have to do something special with websockets etc.?
  2. Are you able to seamlessly use “Current User” and its properties when you do this?
  3. Are you able to log the person easily in Bubble and Xano together and also able to check “When a user logs in” or “Current user is logged in” things automatically on a page?
  4. Are you able to seamlessly use “Parent group’s item” etc while accessing elements or querying them? Or are you having to query each item by ID each time and then use?

Possible for you to show how it is setup, how are you accessing these common things etc?

What kind of app is it and what limitations did you hit?

@mghatiya

  1. If you are using “Xano connector” plugin that leverage xano sdk, then data will be auto update on the screen.
  2. Not seemless. I can’t use “is logged in” feature of current user and also if i set data to current user, that will be live for 3 days (as bubble keep local cache for 3 days only for not logged in user).
  3. To logged in both the place, you need to setup twice. That’s look like not the good solution but works. But you can leverage “Xano auth” element of Xano Connector plugin that have state “user is logged in or out”
  4. Parent Group things is related to Bubble UI not involve Xano (or I am not able to understand the questions)

@ihsanzainal84

Biggest problem is starting hustle to managing lots of object and element, just to fetch the data as opposed to Bubble db where you just need to call “Create a new thing”. Once you are comfortable with it, you start appreciating the efforts you have put.

Ankur@Nocodetalks
Looking for a Bubble Coach? Buy Bubble.io mentorship

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Yeah, I personally will only offload outside of Bubble if I need to do some very heavy data processing that will cost a lot of WU. Even then I will weigh the additional costs in complexity and money. If I can spend the around the same amount by just adding more WU, I’ll just keep everything in Bubble.

I know there are some users here that require complex data processing so in those cases it makes sense. Hence why I want to know what kind of app the OP is talking about and what were the limitations they experienced.

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@ihsanzainal84

much better to leverage JS too in some case… Put JS inside the plugin and start using at the client side (if you are not exposing some personal data).

Don’t often hear folks discuss setting up a custom node or python based server for doing custom/heavy data processing stuff. I suppose it’s because it IS CODE but it really doesn’t take that much Python knowhow to create advanced functionally using pandas (or even custom pdf solutions, AIs, scrapers). Just mentioning it can be worth it to pickup starter coding skills. In general it will help one keep the benefits of holding data in bubble longer while freeing yourself of some of nocode’s limitations.

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Good luck, Jacobglanz9.

With your new Bubble+Xano platform
in realty I see Xano is very powerful idea to create free back end and expose the business As API depend on the visual programing technology (I don’t like No-Code terminology)

However, I need to ask some questions here.

1- Why do you use Xano instead of Supabase?
2- Are there any limitations to the way business logic can be written in Xano?
3- Xano has also an extra fee. Do you calculate the full cost for Bubble + Xano?
4-what about the performance and security if the same application is done by bubble
5-tell us more about the learning curve and support from the Xano team
6- You can now use any front end (weweb, flutterflow, webflow) or negative framework like (Angular, React, Vujs) so Do you find any value to use bubble in the front end?

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1- Why do you use Xano instead of Supabase?
Bubble’s logic is dumb. How do you execute a loop? How do you declare a variable? How do you get a response from an internal API or function? How do you deal with a nested JSON object?. You can definitely accomplish all of that in some way, then your backend becomes a junkyard of workflows, bubble is not meant for that.
Supabase/Firebase requires coding knowledge
Xano is a smart backend and doesn’t require coding knowledge (how bubble backend should have been), it’s right in the middle.

2- Are there any limitations to the way business logic can be written in Xano?
Limitations, for example what? please elaborate

3- Xano has also an extra fee. Do you calculate the full cost for Bubble + Xano?
I do, and i used to pay $130/m, now pay $101/m.
Because i don’t use bubble backend anymore i was able to downgraded $34/m, and i pay xano $67/m, so in total it’s $29 before.

4-what about the performance and security if the same application is done by bubble
Performance? Horrible!. Security? Same.

5-tell us more about the learning curve and support from the Xano team
They have chat support and response within an hour, They have a weekly Zoom where you can ask live, made for more complicated design/structure questions/issues.
Lots of resources, Youtube, Documentation, also Forums but it’s not good/popular as bubble’s.

6- You can now use any front end (weweb, flutterflow, webflow) or negative framework like (Angular, React, Vujs) so Do you find any value to use bubble in the front end?
I use bubble fronent because i already know it, and i like it. SEO is the only problem i have.

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The WU thing is a crime for itself, But i was more worried about the performance.
And i agree that it’s unconfutable to use something out of your primary backend, and using Xano as a primary backend requires more initial setup, but once it’s setup it requires less work.

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@ankur1 - where did you find the ability for the connection to act as a websocket (real-time data, just like Bubble’s build-in db)? As i currently just have REST functionality (via the api connector or the xano plugin) where I manually have to define when to update the data. Would be awesome if that’s also a feature!

@klaas.vanhoeck1

No if you use the “Xano connector” plugin to fetch the data, then you can see updated data in real-time.

It will not completely works as the Bubble-db.

For ex- “Do search for <any_data_type>” and fetch only last 10 items.

In Bubble, it automatically updated when new items added but in case of xano it will not updated.

but if you make some changes in the existing data, then new changes will appear.

I don’t know how (I want to know too) but since “xano connector” plugin uses the xano client side SDK that must have some code to handle real-time update.

I have to say that I concur with @jacobglanz9. I went back to the drawing board with my app using Xano as the back-end. I wanted to go with Supabase ideally but didn’t have time to develop a plug-in for it (since then a paid plug-in has been released which is like-for-like with the Xano Connector plug-in - Supabase.js Plugin | Bubble). However having worked with Xano for almost 3 months now, I really like it, it’s highly flexible, overcomes so many of Bubble’s back-end workflow and database idiosyncrasies and limitations. While you can’t write SQL directly, it’s query format brings you as close as damn-it in a No-Code format. There are things that could be improved but it’s far and away a better back-end experience than Bubble. Definitely worth checking out.

The biggest downside, especially for those used to working with Bubble’s DB, is the lack of web sockets to enable realtime updates. As said by others, the Xano Connector tries it’s best such as auto-refreshing when the user updates data in their own session and when they leave the web-page/tab and return, but it’s reliant on API calls from the client to the server whereas realtime requires the server to push changes to the client based on changes to the database from other users. If you need a realtime feature such as chat or a realtime dashboard then use Bubble’s DB for that as it works perfectly. For everything else use Xano.

Shameless plug : I’m putting together a video tutorial series on what I call “Xabble”, the Xano/Bubble stack. Check it out if this is something you’re interested in :blush:

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So as long as you don’t force your XanoQuery to reload (xano plugin based on the SDK), your data will not change. Or is there a method in the sdk to do that. I already went over it, but didn’t find it.
Because that would be a killer feature that takes the last bit of resistance away from using xano

No, that would require web sockets and Xano doesn’t presently support web sockets, only API calls. I’m pretty sure this is something they’ll bring in the future as they’re up against Supabase which does support web sockets (in their SDK). By the way, the new Supabase plug-in supports realtime features so worth looking at if realtime is critical for you.

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I totally believe that this post has been made by someone from Xano itself for promotion :joy:

@zelus_pudding @klaas.vanhoeck1 @ihsanzainal84 @ankur1 @mghatiya

You see there are many backed providers which are actually more smart than Xano. Xano does the promotion with bubble that is why it is famous over here otherwise there are many back end as a service applications which are two steps ahead of xano😎

Please share.

Supabase :star::star:
Backendless
Baserow
Altogic
Pocketbase are some of few

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Also new players like Fastgen and Comnoco look fantastic. However if you wanna work with Bubble as the front-end and you don’t wanna go through the API connector and consume those rather expensive WUs, then, up until the new paid Supabase plug-in, you just had Xano & the Xano Connector. And it’s pretty good once you get into it working with it.

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