What is a Bug and What is 'Expected/Intended Behavior'?

I am just a little bit disappointed at this point with support at Bubble generally. It seems like with the non-stop issues that are happening in the editor and the public response from @josh and @Roody_BubbleSupport asking the community to continue to submit bug reports, that there would be a bit more effort on Bubble side to ensure that support is top-notch and all user interactions with support are positive.

I have many positive experiences with support, but as the saying goes, one bad apple…I don’t know I forget the rest of the expression as I just focused on the one bad apple part.

One experience in particular is really irking me right now and I need to vent publicly in the hopes it might lead to positive change within how support works. My past public rants and frustration vents led to some significant changes that helped improve the support process. I spoke with support agents in attempts to find what would be more helpful for them when reporting bugs, and that is where the video submission piece came in from. I’ve had support agents tell me, they love working on my bug reports because I provide videos and everything else they might need to make their investigation quicker and result in a resolution more easily.

As I am sure, others are like me, in that a lot of times we might report bugs that are not actually bugs, but maybe we as the developer are doing something wrong, or there is a known limitation or that maybe the system just works differently than we may have expected.

I believe this case below highlights something a little bit different from that.

On august 10 I submitted via email a bug (sometimes it takes too much of my time to go through the report - especially when it is related to ‘editor issues’). The bug report had the following video attached to it, which demonstrated that when there is a conditional and the property to change is the datasource, the clear expression function does not clear the expression, instead it deletes the property to change.

The response was the following:

I appreciate you taking the time to explain your frustration with this - the clear expression behavior as you describe it is working as expected, however I will be sure to pass your feedback on to our product team for their consideration.

Additionally, this would be an excellent point to share on our Ideaboard, which allows you to submit feature requests and vote on ideas that other users have shared. Our product team regularly monitors this and uses it to inform our roadmap.

Then on August 11 I followed up with another video that explained and demonstrated that when I have a conditional and the property to change is text, and I use the clear expression function, the clear expression function will clear the dynamic expression and the property to change (text) remains open.

I followed up with this video and demonstration because I felt that if the behavior of clear expression is working as expected for the property to change of text, then it should work the same way when the property to change is datasource.

The response on August 24 was the following:

Thanks for your patience with this - the engineering team just clarified that the ‘clear expression’ function deleting a data source parameter and emptying a text parameter is working as expected.

I’ve passed along the feedback that this is inconsistent and confusing to our users.

It just seems like there is a tendency to reply that legitimate Bugs are ‘working as expected’…and even if they are working as expected, the working as expected from the engineering teams perspective seems to completely disregard the expectations of the users of the system, and are just simply providing for an extremely poor user experience.

I really hope this open rant will again help to improve the support process at Bubble to make it so that my and many other users continued efforts at improving Bubble as a platform through our unpaid efforts at reporting bugs is not in vain, and instead result in tangible improvements to the platform.

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Also just general dumb stuff - I submitted a bug report today - If you delete a field then the dynamic data becomes Thing’s X - deleted in the expression composer and stays blue, so no issue checker flag. That means if I want to change the field or identify everywhere Thing’s X - deleted is used I have to search for elements that uses field ‘X - deleted’. Except, of course, only undeleted fields show (when there’s really no reason from Bubble’s end that deleted fields can’t be shown in this dropdown too)

I have no doubt that this will come back as either 1. this is expected behaviour 2. submit to the ideaboard!

Why the heck would dynamic expressions that use deleted fields not show on an issue checker?

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I have debated with Support on several issues, and one was similar to this one.

In that case the data source field was not disappearing as it is disappearing in your case (though I have seen that too. Now I don’t recall when it disappears when it doesn’t).

However, when the data source is being put as “empty”, it doesn’t really make the data source to become empty, but it becomes the “default” value given to it.

To me that is absurd and totally counter-intuitive. For all other fields if I set the value as empty in conditionals (e.g. css id, text) it becomes empty really and does not go to default. But in case of “data source” it goes to default.

As per Support team, it was “intended behaviour” and if I want data source to become empty I should use workflow. I debated for a while and then gave up.

I’ve experienced this and it has frustrated me too. The one thing to do is to restore the deleted data type, then you can search using app tool for the fields uses. I believe the rationale for why Bubble doesn’t change the dynamic expression to red is that they may expect that the restore data type feature may be used, but even that rationalization wouldn’t really be reason enough for me personally to not turn the expression red and flag it has an issue.

The dynamic expression will turn red, and the issue checker will flag it as an issue only once you run the optimize application and fully remove the deleted data field from the app…which is why I always create a save point before running the optimize application feature, because it is a nightmare trying to recall what type of data was used in those now red dynamic expressions.

I believe the idea has previously been submitted to the idea board.

I think support is not the correct debate opponent for these types of issues, as it seems to be coming from engineering as to what is expected/intended behavior…which to me really comes down to a possible situation in which there might not be a UX expert in engineering because often the expected/intended behavior defies logic.


Would you look at that.

To be fair they did locate the ideaboard idea to upvote: Bubble | Build Powerful Full-Stack Apps Without Code

59 out of 1,352 ideas (4.3%) shipped :thinking:

I get that one central place for feature requests is a great concept, but this isn’t exactly motivating to add drops of water to the ocean…

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Of course its a bug.
I noticed this started happening a few days ago. It was never like this.
The option to clear the expression should clear the expression, and not delete the condition as well.

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Bug or not it’s been around a long time.

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I had cockroaches in my apartment for 2 years and nobody told me…once they did I bought cockroach traps and eliminated the problem

What Bubble should do to get a little bit more engagement on the forum between Bubble and the community, and at the same time start to ship some features, they should institute a program like ‘Weekly Idea Add’.

Maybe they could put onto the forum every week a thread that is for a vote of a particular idea from the idea board, and if the vote on the forum is in favor of adding the idea, then Bubble adds and ships the idea within the week.

I believe this will be better than the ideaboard as I doubt anybody is actually browsing the ideaboard on a regular basis searching via keywords for potentially newly added ideas they would like to upvote. The ideaboard only seems to be used when somebody is told by Bubble support the Bug is intended behavior and to add the idea to have it fixed to the ideaboard.

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