Xano: a powerful external backend and database for Bubble

[vnihoul77]

Though it might be a good idea to make a post about Xano’s features as many people are now looking for external storage/backend solutions.
We’re an official Xano partner and we use Xano with many Bubble apps, feel free to ask and discuss use-cases below

Xano in short

The Problem Xano solves

Building a scalable backend is complicated, expensive, and time-consuming. This is due to the fact that it takes time and know-how to set up a scalable server, a flexible database, and construct an API with business logic that can communicate across many different platforms.

Why Xano is different

Innovation happens in the last 10% and is what makes your app unique. Xano is Turing-complete, which means anything you can do in a programming language you can do in Xano without code.
Additionally, we are a team of ex-Googlers; our CEO was the original Dev Ops for Google Photos, which literally started with the server on his desk.
If you trust Google’s ability to scale, you can trust Xano to scale your app.

Primary reasons to use Xano

Xano handles every part of the Backend from hosting, scaling, business logic, and more.

Store data without record limits on a powerful PostgreSQL Database.
Build APIs using No Code from simple to complex business logic.
Integrate and connect to any platform or Front-end using your API.
Deploy in the region of your choice for compliance or performance.
Launch & Scale on a secure server. Single-tenant, Docker provisioned, orchestrated by K8s on Google Cloud.
Accelerate Development time - Defining database schema and crafting APIs has never been easier. Deploy a ready-to-scale backend in minutes
Build backend features without constraint - Authentication, Payments, Roles & Permissions, Messaging, API Response caching,…
Import data - Bring in data from Airtable, JSON files, and more.
Automagically Documented - Your API is automatically documented for you in Swagger.
Modern Backend features - API Data Caching via Redis, Data Test Environments, Development Branches, Load balancing, CRON Jobs, Custom domain, Dynamic image scaling, Cryptography, and more.
Connect to Any Front-end - Including Bubble.
Webhooks + Tasks - Trigger API endpoints and functions through Webhooks or schedule workflows to be executed periodically.
Build. Launch. Scale. - Xano is built for scale and to grow with the size of your business no matter how big it becomes. This means as your needs grow, you won’t run into any record, storage, or scaling limitations.
Weekly Orientation/Office Hours - Xano conducts weekly sessions to help users hit the ground running and overcome hurdles they might encounter while building their backend.
Community - Xano has an incredible community of users that have provided us with the support, feedback, and encouragement to launch Product Hunt today. Thank you - we wouldn’t be here without you.

Pricing

Links

[jared.gibb]

Dont forget they also support hipaa compliance!!!

[JonL]

Worth mentioning that the link to Xano signup in OPs thread is a referral link.

[scriptschool]

I fail to see how jumping to Xano in the wake of Bubble’s recent price hike controversy solves any problems.

The issue was that Bubble’s dramatic proposed price hikes scared people and made them realize they were ‘locked in’ to a platform and therefore at the platform’s mercy.

So the solution is… To jump to another low code platform with lock-in?

[vnihoul77]

@jared.gibb

compliance!!!

It is indeed, we earn money on each paid subscription generated from the links.

@scriptschool

I fail to see how jumping to Xano in the wake of Bubble’s recent price hike controversy solves any problems.

That’s a good point. However I think there will always be locks, especially as a sole developer using no-code, and it’s a matter of choosing them wisely and maybe spreading the risk to be more flexible in being able to switch between different tools.
In my opinion there is always a risk, even when working with classic developers you expose yourself to multiple risk factors as you rely on them: they can fall sick and delay your project, steal your code or the company can bankrupt.
With hard code or open source tools you’ll also need to be hosted by third-party services and expose yourself to the servers being taken down or all your data being lost (recent OVH data center fire incident)

So I really think it’s a matter of choosing the risk, being aware of the risk and by posting this thread I just wanted to show a possible solution among many others to potential unaware bubble users

[chad]

I have some questions, I’m really glad you asked.

Is there actually a point where it won’t scale, I know it’s a major hypothetical but could it run eBay?

Can the google cloud db interact with other google cloud services?

Why so small storage space and what’s the recommended way to store mass files?

What happens if Xano goes bust? Can I move my db? What will happen to my logic?

What if I want to migrate away from xano to aws hypothetically what would be the process?

What does it mean by bring my own cloud?

Can I call other apis from within xano, for instance can I use xano to do stripe calls or send emails via sendgrid ?

What is a background task?

What are the drawbacks, everything has drawbacks?

[vnihoul77]

@plaidpixel

Be aware that this alone does not bring Bubble into compliance unless handled extremely carefully (I am not a lawyer, just sharing what I’ve learned from my own experience serving medical clients)

Might worth digging deeper, but if requests are handled using the “Attempt to make this call from browser” options, they might not be logged.

You can also implement the requests without the API connector to avoid this.

However you’re right, every requests send and received on Bubble are always going through their backend and servers.

@chad

I have some questions, I’m really glad you asked.

These are all really good and relevant questions:)

I can answer most of them but as I’m catching up with Xano’s team in the next few hours let’s take the opportunity to secure my answer on the most tricky ones so we’ll have answers from the right people!
Will post them here!

[vnihoul77]

@plaidpixel

I would again urge serious caution.

Definitely!

[equibodyapp]

@vnihoul77

Interested in answers to @chad 's questions too.

Also if you could give us a comparative analysis between using Bubble’s database and Xano in terms of performance and functionality (as in, lock-in risks etc aside).

For instance, all things being equal and if we weren’t worried about exposure risk being all in with Bubble, what other reasons would using Xano DB be preferable to Bubble’s? Can it process more complex logic? Proper calculations? Better recurring tasks (bubble language)?

Would this also be a good solution for a native app?

Have you ever used Firebase and if so could you give a comparison?

[Landowski]

So the solution is… To jump to another low code platform with lock-in?

Sincerely, it’s very hard to me trying to see another no-code platform doing what Bubble did; the platform would have to be very willing to kick users out doing that.

[davidetonin2]

Yep, first time ever a company messes up with prices… Never seen before…
And, of course, the solution would be adding another dependency, much less powerful and more expensive…

[chad]

I’ve seen it before, bubble did it 2 years ago

[chad]

Hey how did you go with those answers

[vnihoul77]

Already let’s go for all your questions

@chad

Is there actually a point where it won’t scale, I know it’s a major hypothetical but could it run eBay?

Nope, there’s not
Xano can scale to whatever needs or means possible. If you visit their technology page, you will see it’s set up with the stack to do so. But keep in mind, scaling to something of that magnitude would require a custom plan and configuration - it would be beyond what is available on their self serve plans, but it’s definitely possible.

@chad

Can the google cloud db interact with other google cloud services?

Xano is hosted on the Google Cloud Platform (GCP), the database is a PostgreSQL database. We don’t allow for direct connections so you would need to build the API calls yourself.

@chad

Why so small storage space and what’s the recommended way to store mass files?

They found that the storage accommodates the vast majority of use cases from their clients. They recommend to users who have media-intensive applications to integrate with a cloud storage provider such as an Amazon S3 so they have complete control over their media storage.

@chad

What happens if Xano goes bust? Can I move my db? What will happen to my logic?

Interesting point about this one: I invite you to read more about how they would open the source code if Xano were to ever go away so you can continue building - Frequently Asked Questions - Xano Documentation

@chad

What if I want to migrate away from xano to aws hypothetically what would be the process?

They allow to export all your data and schema from Xano.

@chad

What does it mean by bring my own cloud?

Bringing your own cloud, means you can have Xano hosted on the cloud platform that you use. For example, Xano is hosted on GCP (Google) but you could bring your own Azure or AWS cloud platform that you have to host Xano instead.

@chad

Can I call other apis from within xano, for instance can I use xano to do stripe calls or send emails via sendgrid ?

Definitely! You can integrate any service that exposes an API.
And they also have a marketplace where you can get modules (pre-setup functions) such as Stripe.

@chad

What is a background task?

You can see background tasks as what Bubble haves with recurring events.

@equibodyapp

Also if you could give us a comparative analysis between using Bubble’s database and Xano in terms of performance and functionality (as in, lock-in risks etc aside).

Well it’s hard because they are two different services for different uses. Xano can’t do most of what Bubble can and vice-versa.
If we’re talking about backends, that’s not Bubble’s strongest point as Bubble is not meant to be a strong backend. So performance-wise Bubble’s backend and Xano are incomparable. Xano can iterate through and execute thousands of functions lighting-speed compared to Bubble.
I would say, generally speaking, that Xano is helpful when your reach Bubble backend’s limits in terms of complexity and performance. I wouldn’t advise working with a separate external backend if there are no highly complex workflow schemes or speed requirements.

Some uses-cases I’ve personally worked on:

• Private rental management platform with over 1000 listings (and their bookings, customers, …), where Xano connects to the different providers (Airbnb, Booking) to constantly get, update and maintain the database to be used in Bubble.

• Database externalization to allow faster (complex) searches

• Error reporter system for Bubble developers, where front-end errors are sent to a Xano server in order to be processed and eventually sent to the app’s owner if critical.
  This processing involves getting similar errors over the database (>1M), determining - based on numerous and complex rules if it needs to be processed by the ML model (using no-code service Pelatrion), checking the incoming API key and verifying the origin of the request, …
  All of this, over dozens of requests per second!

Hope this is helpful for all of us

[chad]

Fantastic thank you very much

[ryanck]

Morning all,

I’ve posted this in the other topic if someone knows how to handle this with Xano and Bubble.

@ryanck

Hello,

I’m just trying to figure it out how to save the returned list in a Bubble database from Xano.

If you make some operations in Xano and want to get them into the Bubble database. Like getting a list of invoice with its each line items, how do you save that in Bubble?

I’ve heard about creating an api workflow that is scheduled via “schedule an API workflow on a list” but in my experience, everything that is scheduled on a list takes loads of resources and maxes out the capacity.

So how can you insert those invoices and each invoice line items so that Bubble capacity does not affected?

Thanks a lot!

[vnihoul77]

@vnihoul77

You could use the Bubble Data API in combination with Xano to save it.

The workflow would be the following: once you’ve made your edits/performed your operations in Xano, retrieve the list of edited entries (function Query a list of entries) and then apply a For Each loop function to the retrieved list.
Now, for each entry of your list, you want to make an external call to the Bubble API to modify or create the entry.

Here’s the documentation for the Data API: Data API - Bubble Docs

Answered there!

[JakeAtAstonish]

Thought I’d offer a little input here. First of all, I understand your response but I think some info was lost in translation. The recommendation is not to switch to Xano, rather it is to deal with your data in Xano. I haven’t had a chance yet to dive super deep with Xano, so I am not sure if they offer a UI builder as well (Backendless offers a UI builder as well, but it is nowhere near as powerful as Bubble’s in my view) but the value add here is increased capabilities on the back end.

Yes, there is a learning curve when implementing Xano. However, the proposed change in Bubble pricing incurred astronomical price hikes tied to data “things”. The idea here is to migrate the data storage and handling to Xano in the interest of still being able to use Bubble on the front end and dealing with the expensive data operations on the back end using Xano. I’m not surprised at this post either. Xano and Backendless have both been ramping up outreach in lieu of the proposed Bubble price changes, which I absolutely do not blame them for. Smart move on their part.

That being said, as @Landowski mentioned, I can’t see any other platform doing what Bubble did. Bubble’s greatest asset, as stated by many users and online reviews, is its strong community. Bubble actually listened to us and pivoted their strategy, which is rare in a company of their size and growth phase. I thought their response to the outrage was incredibly thoughtful and despite the “platform risk” that was so clearly highlighted, I still feel really good about this one simply due to the way they have handled this situation.

This is a new space, with changes occurring on an hourly basis. I’d say we are all just along for the ride here. That being said, these discussions are important and they are closely monitored not only by Bubble but by other platforms. The best strategy here is to make the best decision you can and continue to be involved on this forum.

[JakeAtAstonish]

Very helpful insight, thanks!

[scriptschool]

Hi. Thanks - yes, I understand the distinction that it’s only data that would be moved.

I don’t understand why Xano or any other platform would be prevented from radically hiking its prices. The notion that you or others ‘can’t see’ other platforms doing this doesn’t actually have any bearing on whether a platform will or not.

Presumably Bubble users ‘didn’t see’ this change coming - so why would your expectations, false here, hold true elsewhere? What’s different? I guess this is what I find jarring about ‘join Xano to escape this problem’. It doesn’t escape the problem. It repeats it, almost exactly. Namely… join a no code platform… and assume they won’t suddenly change the terms in a way that harms you.

In any event, your expectations aside, there are no assurances. If a platform with as great a community as Bubble can do this, what in earth is there to stop platforms with lesser communities?

Finally, the idea that this doesn’t happen elsewhere isn’t true. I’m from the legal Industry. I’ve been watching how a company has been buying legal tech companies that law firms have come to rely on… and suddenly they’re increasing pieces by nearly 300%. The comments from users are nearly identical. The difference is that the company is not backing down bc they know the lawyers are fully dependent - and they’re preparing to go to court over it in a class action suit that the users are getting ready to bring.

Anyway, for the record I think all of these trade offs and risks are worth it. I just think they’re jumping ship for some other platform isn’t actually going to remove any risk. If anything it might increase it since, as you say, Bubble has a proven track record of at least listening to its users and rolling mistakes back.

Anyway thanks for your comment and your thoughtfulness in your reply.